Cerla, while I respect your post and agree with some of it ----- what do you think of guys like A-Trak who have recently left SSL for Traktor?

I was a Traktor user, jumped on Itch for a while and ended up on SSL. It meets my needs best. I ended up jumping on Traktor the other day to mess around at home and the ONE thing that will keep me on a Serato product is the library management. The prepare screen and the intuitiveness is much easier to use than Traktors "collection" and as a club DJ it makes it much easier to prepare my set as I read the crowd. The one thing that keeps me on SSL is being able to show up with two timecode CD's and a laptop as opposed to a controller that many times doesn't fit or in all honestly is often frowned upon.

To add to what you are saying about the effects, I used to spend HOURS midi mapping effects to the perfect sound and combination that I often felt like a computer programer instead of a DJ. All I use now are DJM 800 or 900 effects and it's plenty to boost the set for the crowd.

I think Traktor does have some neat tools, and from what I've read the timecode control is a little tighter and they have something up their sleeves to improve timecode even more.

One thing I'd like to see more from Serato in general are more "how to vids" or promo vids. This past weekend I played with a guy that had Traktor and Ableton sync'd and he launched tons of clips it sounded retty damn good. So I tried checking out some good Bridge videos and I could only find a handful. Ok that's another rant.

As hinted in the topic title, these are "thoughts", not market analysis; just a brief narration of what my ears and my gut are telling me.

Highly subjective, granted, but after 22 years spent in clubs you learn to trust your feelings more than an expensive marketing assault.

I hear ya man. You could say the library management is also "subjective" but for me organizing my tracks is more important than an effect!

While I'm very much an ITCH user, I wonder if any of the other Traktor controllers have better sound. The Numark audio interfaces in the NS7 and V7 are fantastic, but even ITCH has some controllers that are not superstars when it comes to their audio output (VCI-300 Mk 1, for example).

I think you'd probably get much better sound out of Traktor Scratch with a "certified" mixer than with the S4.

As to the controller overload that he brought... I think that's just silly. I think people go through a phase of "look at me, I'm cool with all this shit laid out in front of me" until they figure out that its actually just too much of a distraction and pare it back down. I could see the S4 + Launchpad if they're combining Ableton with Traktor. But the iPad AND an iPhone as well? That's just idiotic.

I hope he had his iPhone in airplane mode haha. Personally my feelings are I only have two hands so how much shit do I need? I have four x 6 sample decks with hardware triggers in 2.1, a full Fx bar and all the other standards built in. All I need is a sampler hardware add-on to physically control sample parameters and I'll be good.

About 6 months ago I got into using Traktor for EDM and for me it has its benefits over ITCH, but those same benefits can turn into flaws depending on how they are used (ie. whether or not they fall into the wrong hands).

For example Traktor's effects are pretty damn good (esp. Delay & Filters IMO), in terms of both selection and quality. But this can turn into a negative if you don't use them in moderation (or know how to use them effectively at all). All these chained-fx and other combinations are cool & you can get really creative and all but some people just OD on it and would've been better off if they had just used one simple effect or none at all. I've only seen a few videos & mixes from DJs who take advantage of it being creative and all but still sounding good IMO. While I would like chained and better quality fx to be implemented in ITCH I believe that some people would make it a disadvantage for themselves, as many already do in Traktor (in terms of using multiple & chained effects). For most intents & purposes ITCH's effects system is sufficient its just the quality that needs to be improved. The ability to chain 2 or so effects would be nice but its no deal breaker, for me anyway.

The layout is a big gripe for me though, yes you can get very creative in Trakor but the layout kinda circumsizes creativity for me. Some people say its cluttered but I don't think so really, when you take out the internal mixer its not cluttered at all. I just think its the whole location of the decks. I've been spoiled by parallel waveforms and I keep wondering why they weren't implemented in Traktor when they introduced coloured waveforms in Traktor 2.

In conclusion, ITCH provides a user-friendly environment which more conducive for DJing than Traktor (my honest opinion). This is due to the waveform layout/location, library management and lack of internal mixer (which can be removed in Traktor to be fair). ITCH's disadvantages to Traktor are lack of MIDI-Mapping and an inferior effects system, but for some both can actually be a blessing in disguise (especially the effects).

ITCH's simplicity encourages creativity for me, others may feel differently but to each his own.

BTW when I say chain 2 or so effects I mean with 1 effect knob/processor.

i actually teach dj classes to beginners. i have an itch controller that rotates. 'cause i want to show the benefits of each controller' and use an s4. I really didnt notice that big of sound. I still say the sound of the ddj beats all controller even the itch ones.
i personally look at the screen less with traktor when i have it in my personal set up. i personally am just as creative with traktor as i am with itch. actually even more so due to effects but that isn't an insult to itch itch effects are still young. So this may just show it's more about a dj finding what works for them than what ANY program offers over the next. And that is what i am picking up from teaching many young dj's per week

Well said.

There are fundamental differencies in being "creative" in front of a class, a camera or other controlled environments and being "creative" in front of an actual, dancing audience. It's the second type of "creativity" I am refering to in the OP. Just look at the face of the typical Traktor user, all absorbed into "getting the most out of Traktor" ;)

Seriously, less is (much) more when you're in front of the wild animal called "crowd"!

Keep it up Cerla! I'd love for you to do some tutorials on the NS6...become the Ean Golden of Serato/Numark!

i am not talking about being creative in front of a class.... this is the part i dont get. sure traktor has more features but doesn't mean i am going to use them all at once. it's all dj software. the dj is in control your itch set can sound just like your traktor set

This creativity comments are great. I used to think am I restricted by my software, hardware or my own creativity. I used to think I had to have more and enjoyed all the features and mapping capibilites of Traktor. When using Itch I felt as if something was missing -- but I truly enjoyed the workflow. What I have found when using SSL vs. a controller or Traktor is the the physical interaction required to used Turntables or even CDJ's in timecode with SSL is that I focus more on the music then on effects. I find for me that sparks creativity --- the physical movements required to scratch in a track on turntables gets me involved, keeps me thinking, I add that to the workflow of SSL and I begin to think of many more ways to enhance my set. So I kinda understand what Cerla is saying, but really what's coming out of the speakers could be played on Traktor, Itch, SSL, etc. I'm not doing anything I couldn't do on any other platform for that matter.

haze you may be making a valid point to me. I use traktor with turntables and itch with controllers. maybe my love that i feel for traktor is based more on my love for turntables. cause like you my sets can be done in either software

i know not many will agree with me but ive been feeling that since i got a vci300 and lately have been digging on it more then my V7s. waiting on the fx control to come in the mail from vestax, ive been messing with my vci and i feel more focused on the mix and making the right combinations rather then trying to do or come up with some clever bullshit with my v7s fx and a kaoss pad.

I find it unlikely that any top equipment in the market today will have any real difference in sound quality. The quality levels are way above what a person can distinguish, especially in a club environment. It's more about what a DJ want to believe about his own equipment to be honest...

I think the most important thing is to master your own equipment and build your own style. Just my opinion.

If your point is the average Jane on a dancefloor with poor PA and all levels on red can't distinguish between a good sounding device and a shoe box, then you're probably right.

This said there are huge sound differences between devices labeled as "pro", and if you're serious about your job then you should bring them into the equation.

The Traktor vs. Scratch live argument will live on as long as the two products do. I feel that scratch live definitely has the edge in library management ( even though there's still room to make it way better). For creativity I think that Traktor has the edge with the vast amount of things that you can connect to it and even the software itself (effects, being able to plug in turntables without much mess, Midi mapping). Serato needs to loosen the chains when it comes to it software and bridge the gap between itch and scratch live.

Just my 2 cents.

Midi mapping alone is why i'm now checking out Traktor; they have all these neat toys coming out too. The Kontrol F1 I believe comes with Traktor 2.5, It's an instant purchase; as much as I love serato the lack of midi mapping and being able to use external midi controllers kills it for me.

Make no mistake; the Numark MPC DJ is going to be Serato and Numarks answer to the Native Instruments Traktor Kontrol F1; instead of loosening up the chains, Serato and company are going to keep forcing new controllers down eveyrones throats.

The MPC DJ and the F1 target different markets. The F1 is a modular device, the MPC DJ is a entire portable system.

I was on traktor for a while. I know gig with SSL. The midi mapping and all that stuff is nice and cute. I still frequent DJTT often and the midi fighters and the custom mappings I think are all cool niche devices or tools, but after creating many of my own mappings I started to feel more like a computer programer than a DJ. Having 1000 features is like saying you won 1000 shoes.....guess what, you can only wear one pair at time. More features does not equate better DJ or even more creativity. It just means you have more shoes.

^Then go back to using 1200's and a cassette deck/reel to reel to record! Keep those old shoes.

There are those of us that don't feel like programmers and appreciate creating custom mappings to suit our styles.

The F1 is a win win, you get Traktor 2.5 free and a great midi device to accompany the controller you already have.

Haze has a point. If you're constantly deviated from your primary workflow, which is to DJ, then you are becoming something else. Albeit, an added knowledge skill set but that don't necessary improve your primary workflow. But kudos to those who have the ability to do so. Not sure about everyone else approach, but I am all about simplicity and minimality. I spend all my time getting to know my music. :)

I can confirm that the V7's with iTunes songs sound almost as dynamic as 16bit 44.1 CD's on CJ1000's. So I'm not surprised of what Cerla wrote. (ofcourse, there is a small difference but most people don't even notice it.)

However, I'm rather surprised that the S4 produces muffle sound.
Mathematically there should be no difference in output quality for both V7 and S4.
Could it be that the sound quality of the files that the other DJ used, wasn't of good quality?

I have an NS6, and I'm working on Itch slowly...I have always used Traktor though, well I've learned to improve my skill on Traktor. I started out with VDJ but when I got more serious and started buying equipment, even though it wasn't much but a simpleton Numark controller (Stealth Control) and a midi pad, I was able to expand my game a lot. I am very familiar with Traktor and still learning more and more each day, but can certainly do a lot with my mixing, especially small gigs and even a club/bar...I wasn't able to step up to Serato because of personal problems and wasn't worth to me spending so much.

I got a sweet deal on an NS6 and Serato to me was completely different, personally I don't like it much and no...wasn't the effects. Layout in general was better and had little bugs with loops and things with Serato. I'm still trying to learn it when I get a chance, but will be using Traktor. I didn't want my new controller going to waste, so I got the mapping on numark and also on UniqueSquared.com for Traktor to be able to work with the NS6.

To me Traktor is better, but my opinion is honestly biased. It will go based off preference no matter who you ask unless they are 100% new to digital dj'ing. It's like asking a long time user of Xbox if he likes PS3 more.

Traktor/S4 imo has its own sound, and I'm really not a fan of it.
I love the program and its features but with the s4 for me it required substantial eq'ing to even use. Sold my s4 pretty quick...

Everyone has different ears but imo ssl and itch sound extremely similar to a full spdif cdj900/2000 @ 900nex setup. I can hear the difference on monitors but usually not on a pa system.

As for Traktor 2.5 everyone I know that tried it had to go back to the last stable version. Bug central from what I hear. But I've never tried 2.5 myself so who knows...

it's the soundcard that matters actually... ITCH gear has an extreme range of sound quality, too, from original VCI-300 (worst) to DDJ-S1 (best).

But I agree: the S4 sound is boxy and generally sucks according to my stock ears set ;)

This is true.

Another thing I love about the Itch controllers is the ability to use XLR's. I've used RCA's all the time until about a week ago when I used some XLR to XLR. Amazingly great.

Never had a problem with the Audio 8 (same hardware as S4 apparantly) but the signal is a little hot. Setting to -9db negates digital distortion and the sound is crystal clear.

The reason i'm reading this article, however , is that as a long time Traktor user I find my mixing and creativity is impaired. As soon as I'm back on the vinyl the feeling is back.

Don't own SSL so cant comment but seriously considering it.

Do own a Twitch but Itch isn't an option for me as it's not stable on my MBP and I miss my timecode.

xlr outputs have nothing to do with sound quality, they are exactly the same as 1/4 TRS balanced connections that are present on most (if not all) itch controllers...
the real difference is between balanced (xlr, 1/4 TRS) and unbalanced (RCA, 1/4 TS) connections,
especially when you connect different kinds to each other

i suspect you noticed a improvement in sound when you switched from:
a RCA output (unbalanced)->XLR input (balanced, and maybe not very well "converted" from the unbalanced input as there is some math/electronics involved in connecting unbalanced outputs to balanced inputs)
to:
XLR or 1/4 TRS Jack output (balanced)->XLR input (no signal loss, no conversions, no electronics, 3 pins to 3 pins connection, plain and simple)

It's interesting you said that cause I thought I was imagining things when I was listening to my Traktor/X1600 setup. I thought it sounded muffled too, but just thought it was me.

Having listened to both itch and traktor pro 2 through a variety of different systems from, I call bs.

Provided that the audio files are good quality, you will get good response out of any of the top level controllers- this includes the s4

They sound different. I would not say the sound quality is better or worse, but let's just say I often find myself turning the "hi" knob more than I'd like. In defense of the X1600 I am comparing the sound quality against a Symphony I/O converter and not a serato setup.

Sorry, that wasn't a direct reply to your comment DJTorchmusic, but to djcerla's original post stating "First thing I immediately noticed was the difference in sound quality. The S4 simply sounded half as good as the Numark powerhouses.."

S4 is nowhere close sound-wise to, say, a DDJ-S1 or a NS7.

Not the master out, nor the headphone out, which is laughably soft and muffled in NI offering.

Strongly disagree. These are all top-tier controllers, with good sound interfaces. Under testing of quite a few controllers we've found the s4 *and* the s2 for that matter, to be excellent.

in fact i would use any of these decks: s4, s2, ns7, ns6, 4trak, ddjs1, ddjt1, dnmc3000 & 6000, vci 380, vci400, twitch..

.

Strongly disagree..

Not all ears are made equal.

S4 may be "excellent", of course, but in this case, DDJ-S1 is "much more excellent". Some ITCH forum regulars even switched back from S4 due to inferior sound quality... in their opinion.

I've tested the S4 myself and came to similar conclusions, especially in the HP out department.

Not all ITCH gear is equally good, of course, as I always disliked Xone DX, Twitch and OG VCI-300 soundcards.

PS "strongly disagree" was meant to be a quote, sorry.

+1
I've owned both and have to agree with Cerla, the NS7 superior sound overall.

I've owned an S4, NS7, and DDJ-S1...and also VCI-300 MK1 and 2, as well as various Rane and NI soundcards.


In comparison the NS7 had the richest sound. The DDJ came close, but the NS7 has a sound of it's own. The S4 had a very warm sound, that sound "great" but I'd say a notch below the other two. I never used it at a club, so i can't comment on the sound output/volume --- but if I had to chose I'd pick the NS7 over the S4.

Good to hear some different opinions and experiences.



No need to reduce the discussion to petty insults. I agree that the levels (main outs and hp outs) from different decks can vary a lot, however I don't believe there is much variance in overall quality- provided the source files are good, and the system is configured properly.

I think you misunderstood, that wasn't meant as an insult :)

I find the difference in sound between S4 and, say, NS7, pretty much noticeable (others seem to agree). For you, there is no noticeable difference. Thus, not all ears are made equal.

As an additional example, I struggle to spot slight amounts of detuning in sounds or vocals, whereas my musician immediately spots them, but I'm much more accurate than him in spotting distortion or phase problems.

Cerla, I want your take on the DDJ SX soundcard if and when you get the chance. I'm between getting that or ponying up for the DJM 900 (as I'm not super happy that Xone DX is no longer supported and might want to buy into hardware that is not software dependent)

DJ Fez, the soundcard of the S1 is beyond awesome.

I expect nothing less from SX's... actually I'd expect the same one. But it's just my guess at this point.

Oh, true. Good point. They probably would use the same one. Although since the initial MSRP is lower, might be worth confirmation. I may shoot a message over to Pioneer

Fez you probably can find out on the Pio DJ Forum.

Ah no problem, my misunderstanding.



I think it's worth noting that amongst my friends we have taken to using analog pre-stage, because the output from different decks can vary quite a bit. Usually this will be the club or venue's house mixer, but we also have another to use in situations where we are running all the gear. I particularly notice the difference in my Twitch, it's output is quite low compared to other decks.

I have to say the majority of quality issues I've seen are usually related to poor source files, unbalanced setups and bad system EQing

My Novation Twitch is ment for Serato and it defs shows. I've done several shows and mixes in Traktor and I recently turned to Serato because the mixes just sound smooth and come together easily. the beat griding function is very on the fly (on the twitch at least). What kind of MIDI interface should i get for it though? you guys might be right about the sound quality.

I was using Traktor, but I may be switching to Serato because everyone else in the City is using it...The Clubs are using Serato too, which is surprising for such a "Techno Based" industry here.

Me Switching to Serato, I would say this is more of an "application" based decision and not a choice. No too many clubs are gonna let you "rip out" their serato gear so you can put in your Traktor gear and walking into a club "praying" they have a mixer with a Traktor" compatible sound card is too risky. I can't believe I'm considering dumping my 2 month old setup for some new stuff, but that's the business for you.

Hey Guys,

I started out using Torq with an Xponent, and that was pretty good for a few years. Then switched to Traktor and a S4, now have ver2.6, and really love it (only wished they had parallel waveforms). During that switch I did notice a slight drop in sound quality, but when I changed the DAC setting in Traktor to 48Khz it really opened and cleaned up the sound on the S4. I get complemented on the sound of my sets quite often, I play at weddings also large stage events even from other DJs with a variety of setups.

Could it be that the S4 that some were saying was a lower sound quality, was setup wrong in the DAC? Or some different connection or hardware was being used at the time? Or defective?

For the person who is saying the s4 sound is sub-par, i would ask them to give it another listen, possibly with another s4 that is "tuned" just right. Remember that the consoles etc. we use are like the instruments musicians use. The same violin when it is tuned will sound completely different if not.

Also, the headphone out on my s4 is not muffled at all.

Whenever I am faced with too many options, I always remember Brue Lee saying, to use only what works and discard the rest. Use what works for you. For instance, pertaining to the overwhelming amont of effects on Traktor, i mainly use the same 4 effects for 90% of my gigs. And ignore the rest. That works for me.

So why couldn't you just plug into there mixer with your twitch and serato software on your laptop?

ok how about (DJ NAME) lol sorry i know off topic

I need a dj name bad I'm getting ready to go to London in about 6 mos that just know me by my first name and last name

have you never had a nick name in your life?

No that's why it hard plus I want it to be different and like a logo.

try asking you friend and family what they call you behind your back lol

Dj cock sucker I don't think will work for me. Lol. Are you a dj?

lol yeah started about 17 years ago.
i1055.photobucket.com

it would be hard for me or anyone here to give you a name we dont know you link a photo of you could help or give some info about yourself....

How do you get a job at serato answering emails ?

I don't how to send a pic on here

Do you think the twitch is a good club controller. Plus I'm thinking about picking up a korg kaoss mini pad 2 I want to be stream line and I tech. Give me your take and what kind of equipment do you dj with in a club.

you need to upload it on the web and share the link.

you need to know what controller is good for you ever dj plays there own way, what style of music, do you need to scratch, just beat match etc....

here is my end on 2012 setup with my new sponsor
distilleryimage6.s3.amazonaws.com

You have a sponsor? How do you get those. And where are you from? What type of equipment do you use?

I don't know how to up load it to the web.

I don't scratch. I like to manipulate the music. And add fx.

I live in Fort Wayne Indiana and I lived in Toledo most of my life. So I figure once I get my first gig here locally I will branch out to Toledo, Indianapolis, Detroit and maybe Chicago.

No I think with the technology today I should use it and with the sync button frees up more time to be creative. Beat matching is a thing of the past.

I need to get out of my bedroom and show at least the Midwest what I got. I use to use a launchpad with ableton. But now I have the novation twitch with serato itch 2.2.2 and I love it.

If you close to me we should do a duo and rock the house charge double and split it 50 50. You have the knowledge and I have the technology. We could take our act overseas.

Yeah XXL energy drink is my sponsor .. to get a sponsor you need to show that you can sell there product or help make it a house hold name.., am from the UK i play all over the world right now am in Gambia ..
i1055.photobucket.com
i1055.photobucket.com

Do it pay good and do they pay for your airplane and hotel

Could you get me a overseas gig?

Lets do a gig together where your from and make it a big event and since I'm from the USA it could be huge.

And if it goes good then I could get you to come here

This could be huge lets do our first gig like I 3 months my wife is my helper so she would come with me. I could open up for you.

What do you think?

What's your email?

I could email pictures

I can help you sponsor xxl here in the USA. How do they compensate you for XXL.

bro PM me its like we are hi jacking djcerla post

I don't know what you mean. My email is freshstartclean@ymail.com

My full name is Dustin Chevalier and I'm 39 years old