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Denon DJ VL12 - new turntable.

dj_soo 11:37 PM - 21 January, 2016
www.digitaldjtips.com

Looks like it's not Super OEM. Be interesting to see how this performs...
MPC O.G. 1:59 AM - 22 January, 2016
They ARE Hanpins. Nicer to look at, but STILL Hanpins. I think somebody already linked which model they are on djworx.com.
MPC O.G. 2:04 AM - 22 January, 2016
www.hanpin.com.tw...

HANPINS!
Djkom 8:07 AM - 22 January, 2016
I would have prefer something else than a simple turntable :(
Looks like every companies hink they're hype because they make a device which brings nothing new since more than 30 years !!!
Boring as hell, and looking at the Denon 2016 products page, nothing else will come...
Such noise around the return of Denon Dj ...I'm afraid they're not going to do this in 2016. :(

I hoped so hard a new version of the sc3900 or something like the plx1100 concept.
Pioneer has won the game, no other company can compete them now
Djkom 1:10 PM - 22 January, 2016
Watchwww.youtube.com

Available in May for 699$ .... :(
Rebelguy 2:06 PM - 22 January, 2016
What's so original about the PLX1100?
blackavenger 2:10 PM - 22 January, 2016
"All Denon DJ parts......All Denon DJ construction"

How are these Hanpins?
Joee 2:12 PM - 22 January, 2016
knocking on pioneers door ….denon really trying to make a comeback
Logisticalstyles 3:17 PM - 22 January, 2016
Quote:
I would have prefer something else than a simple turntable :(
Looks like every companies hink they're hype because they make a device which brings nothing new since more than 30 years !!!
Boring as hell,


It's a turntable. There is very little to improve upon. Turntables are not very complex devices. All of the fancy stuff worth improving is under the hood. Motors and tone arms can be improved but that's not really "sexy" in this age of controllers. Not everyone is gonna add cue point buttons and MIDI controls to everything.
dj_soo 3:35 PM - 22 January, 2016
I'm still hoping for a new version of the SC3900 - maybe ditching the cd player and getting native serato support.

The fact that they are still willing to put out turntables shows that this could easily happen...
Djkom 4:51 PM - 22 January, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
I would have prefer something else than a simple turntable :(
Looks like every companies hink they're hype because they make a device which brings nothing new since more than 30 years !!!
Boring as hell,


It's a turntable. There is very little to improve upon. Turntables are not very complex devices. All of the fancy stuff worth improving is under the hood. Motors and tone arms can be improved but that's not really "sexy" in this age of controllers. Not everyone is gonna add cue point buttons and MIDI controls to everything.


But most of these turntables will be used more than 90% of the time with DVS, so it makes sense to add DVS features IMO. Even Reloop (damn Reloop !!!) has made turntablist that is more in the context to differentiate them!

They can also change the size => djworx.com

All in all it's 2016, so at least just to be "not like the others" a major company can and have to bring something else than a basic turntable
Djkom 4:52 PM - 22 January, 2016
Quote:
I'm still hoping for a new version of the SC3900 - maybe ditching the cd player and getting native serato support.


YES !!!!
Logisticalstyles 5:02 PM - 22 January, 2016
Quote:


They can also change the size => djworx.com


Now, that's change I can get with. A 10" version would be dope.
Rebelguy 5:16 PM - 22 January, 2016
Quote:


They can also change the size => djworx.com



It would probably never happen as it would be too much of a niche product.
Gio Alex 5:26 PM - 22 January, 2016
Quote:
What's so original about the PLX1100?


exactly.

I feel like turntable wise Reloop was the only one to really bring something new to the table. No pun intended.
skampy 5:50 PM - 22 January, 2016
Quote:
What's so original about the PLX1100?


The fact that it doesn't exist ;-)

It refers to the infamous mockup, as appeared on djworx (and created by Mark Settle I believe).
Gio Alex 5:57 PM - 22 January, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
What's so original about the PLX1100?


The fact that it doesn't exist ;-)

It refers to the infamous mockup, as appeared on djworx (and created by Mark Settle I believe).


I just now realized he wrote 1100 and not 1000.
Rebelguy 6:34 PM - 22 January, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
What's so original about the PLX1100?


The fact that it doesn't exist ;-)

It refers to the infamous mockup, as appeared on djworx (and created by Mark Settle I believe).


I forgot to add ;) on my comment as well. That would have been an interesting product.
Djkom 9:47 PM - 22 January, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
They can also change the size => djworx.com
It would probably never happen as it would be too much of a niche product.


I'm not necessary agree, If this shiny 10" turntable could also play 12" vinyls (with kinda new eccentric tonearm) it's will be a win since there are already 10" control vinyls from both Traktor and Serato.
Gio Alex 10:07 PM - 22 January, 2016
Quote:
I'm not necessary agree, If this shiny 10" turntable could also play 12" vinyl (with kinda new eccentric tonearm) it's will be a win since there are already 10" control vinyl from both Traktor and Serato.


Fixed. I removed the s from vinyl. You're welcome.
Djkom 10:30 PM - 22 January, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not necessary agree, If this shiny 10" turntable could also play 12" vinyl (with kinda new eccentric tonearm) it's will be a win since there are already 10" control vinyl from both Traktor and Serato.


Fixed. I removed the s from vinyl. You're welcome.


Thanks! (english is not my native language)
Gio Alex 10:38 PM - 22 January, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not necessary agree, If this shiny 10" turntable could also play 12" vinyl (with kinda new eccentric tonearm) it's will be a win since there are already 10" control vinyl from both Traktor and Serato.


Fixed. I removed the s from vinyl. You're welcome.


Thanks! (english is not my native language)


All good, lol I'm just teasing. :)
nyfl2008 12:26 AM - 23 January, 2016
Omg . Pioneer is nothing but a copy of everyone else except there cdj's. I'm a pioneer dealer. They steal all the hard work from other products and force them to the market. It's like buying a fake Rolex or buying a Lexus and thinking its a BMW yeah right. Plx turntables were never anything special Stanton or Reloop hold the market down. Hanpins are a legendary build from Germany. Even technics copied them as the japs (nips) always do that's all they know how to do is make fakes or copies. Read up on your equipment. I service all the different brands and pioneer lacks a lot in build quality except for cdj's. Dvs is here to stay if your using a controller that's cause your not from the turntable time. Real vinyl is being sold everywhere again. Controllers are good for a bbq but real dj's use turntables.
slimmjimm 2:23 AM - 23 January, 2016
I have to say I'm kind of excited. I may even be an early adopter. I like my 12's, but have been itching to have something box fresh again.
Discobee 2:53 AM - 23 January, 2016
Did he say "japs" in 2016? Wow.
Discobee 2:57 AM - 23 January, 2016
"Hanpins a legendary build from Germany"

Say what????
nyfl2008 3:37 AM - 23 January, 2016
Let me correct a error. The original design was created in Germany but hanpin came out in 1965 from taiwan. Fact
dj_soo 7:06 AM - 23 January, 2016
Quote:
Did he say "japs" in 2016? Wow.


he also called them "nips."

:-\
Luke Annett 9:21 AM - 23 January, 2016
lol great to see political incorrectness is alive and well.

I'm actually looking forward to this turntable. looks like a lot of work has been put into the isolation. If they've got the wow & flutter down to 0.01% or less they have a winner. I hate hanpins because of their weak isolation and wide pitch increments. Big ups Denon if they pull this off, I'll be saving my $$$ but if they don't pull it off I'll be happy to stick to my 1800mk2s.
Lou Dog 6:53 PM - 23 January, 2016
Is it just me or are the feet recessed towards the center of the platter? Not directly on all four corners. Interesting on a few levels

Hope these things pan out tho. Have more faith in this then when I saw the PLX just based off of company build reputation.
Detroitbootybass 8:58 PM - 23 January, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Did he say "japs" in 2016? Wow.


he also called them "nips."

:-\



Yeah, that was pretty disgusting.

But Luke Annett seems to agree with nyfl2008 that racial slurs are great way to show one's communication and intellectual skills to the public at large.
Detroitbootybass 9:00 PM - 23 January, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Did he say "japs" in 2016? Wow.


he also called them "nips."

:-\



Yeah, that was pretty disgusting.

But Luke Annett seems to agree with nyfl2008 that racial slurs are great way to show one's communication and intellectual skills to the public at large.


And my reading comprehension is sorely lacking.

Sorry, Luke! My mistake to lump you in wih nyfl2008.

I can put the dunce cap on and sit in the corner for the rest of the day...

:(
Gio Alex 2:27 AM - 24 January, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Did he say "japs" in 2016? Wow.


he also called them "nips."

:-\


Did this dude fight in WW2? lol

I can't believe I just read that.
Direktion 2:50 AM - 28 January, 2016
People have been having a hard-on for Technics 1200's for years, and it's basically over quality design that has stood the rigours of time. Numark and Vestax brought innovation to the (turn)table, and Stanton to a lesser extent. Vestax went broke, Stanton is almost non-existent now and Numark's parent company, inMusic, is bankrolling the new Denon productions. I think that shows where the market is at.

And where that is, is people want a rock solid turntable that performs well. You can always add MIDI controls (via an AMX, AFX, LPD, Dicer) if your mixer doesn't already have it, and DVS is your thing.
nyfl2008 8:10 PM - 31 January, 2016
Actually just tested the new Denon VL 12 turntables I was at a show in Vegas. There excellent I couldn't feel any difference from the Reloop RP 7000 or 8000 models. There should be 2 start stops though for battle mode like reloop or stanton. There solid tone arm is actuall the same manufacture as technics use. Reloop is different. Still the torque can't beat the Reloop but really not necessary. Also same as Reloop if you turn off power it cuts sound instantly unlike technics they don't. I also can tell the preamp is a little distorted in line mode bad news to me cause I'm a sound engineer and beat creator. On phono it's all good. With a Rane mixer on phono it's perfect but I would push your luck with a cheap preamp buoy into any other mixer then Rane. They hold the gold metal for phono preamps in the Dj industry. I brought it up to Denon they couldn't believe how I noticed the distortion and the admitted it. They said they have a firmware update to correct it coming as soon as they hit retail.
nyfl2008 8:21 PM - 31 January, 2016
As far as isolation there's a trick to stopping vibration to the tone arm. I fill the tone arm with a liquid sorbethen foam it kills the issue. You can put a sub below your table and nothing will happen. It will not throw off the tone arm other then adding less weight. If you don't know how to do that then you can upgrade and buy a tone arm manufactured this way. Or purchase new feet that screw right in there's only one manufacture that really works for this there about $250 for 4 feet so $500 for 8 but it works and it's the same height
nyfl2008 8:26 PM - 31 January, 2016
If you guys need help on this let me know. I build and rebuild turntables in my shop for many clubs and concerts across the US. I test equipment for many manufactures as prototypes. Most turntables can also benefit by using a suspension table there about $300.00 really works. But that's good for permanent installs.
dj_soo 8:28 PM - 31 January, 2016
Quote:
I fill the tone arm with a liquid sorbethen foam it kills the issue.


wouldn't that mess with the audio for vinyl tho?
nyfl2008 9:49 PM - 31 January, 2016
Nope not at all. It's just an insulator the tone arm is hollow and has the 4 conductor leads for the cart in it. The weight difference is not noticeable except when you set up weight you just zero out same way as normal
DJ Reflex 12:15 AM - 1 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
I fill the tone arm with a liquid sorbethen foam it kills the issue.


wouldn't that mess with the audio for vinyl tho?


Shouldn't. That's the work of the needle/cartridge.

I can see this working to some extent... I'd be interested.
nyfl2008 1:35 AM - 1 February, 2016
It's just a hollow tube with the wires inside. The audio would not be messed with or will not interfere impossible. The wires need to have the right amount of slack on them so they don't get pulled I make my own custom harness and first use 2 small plastic straws put together and insert them through the tone arm so I have a channel when I inject the foam resin. Then I remove the straws and there's just enough room with enough space for the wires not to be under pressure or strain. I do this for many of the top dj's turntables. Many of the concert setups i do the turntables are brought to me if it has not been done yet and then set up. This is why most dj's get so frustrated and can't figure out why the store bought or online bought models flutter but when they see a factory video it shows them perfect. They don't tell you what the did or I do to mod them.
nyfl2008 1:42 AM - 1 February, 2016
I also remove some of the speed control capacitors and solder in different value ones and add buffering resisters to help and maintain no big down speed or lag. It's all in the electrical schematics you need to always look back at the drawings to get what you want. Manufactures will improve but if they do the mods like I do they won't make money on small improvements. You can buy the tone arms from ortofon I do them for custom celebrity setups. Ortofon has 1 that is manufactured the way I custom them. Expensive but depends what turntable you have. I believe there's only works on hanpin tone arms
nyfl2008 1:42 AM - 1 February, 2016
Correction bog down speed (not big down)
deezlee 1:57 AM - 1 February, 2016
wow that sounds cool. i play a lot of all vinyl gigs and it's rough out there these days as far as bass under the stage and stuff.
nyfl2008 2:16 AM - 1 February, 2016
cdn.shopify.com

Try the feet excellent or

www.sefour.com

Let me know you can open the links
nyfl2008 2:16 AM - 1 February, 2016
They both work 99 percent solutions
dj_soo 6:22 AM - 1 February, 2016
I want to get those feet, but they are pretty pricey... last I checked, they would come to well over $500 for 8 of them...
nyfl2008 6:32 AM - 1 February, 2016
They are but it would be the end of you worrying about skips or stutter in your audio
dj_soo 8:14 AM - 1 February, 2016
Or I could get ashtrays and rubber bands and get the same effect at a fraction of the cost
nyfl2008 9:25 AM - 1 February, 2016
Yea but that's a real joke , maybe it works but your always screwing around with that it's nonsense professional dj's we get the right equipment and accessories
AaronF 8:10 PM - 3 February, 2016
Someone said these are Hanpin models like everybody else.. Then how come I've read two different reviews from reporters that were at NAMM that clearly states they are NOT another Hanpin copy? Denon claims it manufactured each part of the VL 12 from scratch. I mean they do fall under the IN Music stable owned mainly by Numark and Numarks decks are not Hanpin copys either. The TTX is custom built by Numark. Why is it hard to believe Denon Dj's are made in house too?
nyfl2008 8:33 PM - 3 February, 2016
Your correct Denon which I just tested is not a hanpin its there own but based on the design of one. Reloop the same thing.
dj_soo 8:43 PM - 3 February, 2016
Reloop is hanpin/super oem
AaronF 8:51 PM - 3 February, 2016
I think the vl 12 looks killer. I could lose the lighting effects but I guess that's sorta cool. Just glad to see a reputable company manufacturing a custom deck. Every Denon product I've owned, and I've owned several, has served me well. I still have a cpl old dns5000's laying around that work and they're at least ten years old. Really interested in checking this new turntable out when it gets released. Hopefully soon.
nyfl2008 9:04 PM - 3 February, 2016
Yes im a dealer and personnaly own dns3900's there excellent for what it is. I have The dnx 1700 mixer sound quality in 96k will blow away any mixer on the market even my Rane 64. With Tt's its all about rane for a mixer and then either Reloop, old technics 12's , stanton or soon new VL12 or the new Technics 1200 coming back
Rebelguy 11:08 PM - 3 February, 2016
Quote:
The dnx 1700 mixer sound quality in 96k will blow away any mixer on the market even my Rane 64.


Having owned a DN-X1700 for a few months I will respectfully disagree. It was a good sounding mixer but not blowing away the competition.
nyfl2008 11:28 PM - 3 February, 2016
Do you know how to put it in 96k mode
nyfl2008 11:38 PM - 3 February, 2016
My company services and repairs rane pioneer and denon. If your using denon 1700 mixer with cdjs its hard ti beat the sound quality in 96k. With TT's rane is going to most likely have the best sound quality. Either the 64 or mp2015 which is a true house club mixer. Pioneer is very cheap transforners and they copy most of the rane mixers interally. Japanese also dont make good speakers. They mostly copy. Also they use cheap caps and resisters you will notice when there mixers under heavy volume for time sound quality will diminish. All my techs are pro djs as well we all agree. Start to listen closely to all the different mixers. As a sound engineer my ear is more then seasoned from setting up pro concerts around the world for celebrity events. We are a union company its are ass if we make mistakes
Rebelguy 11:47 PM - 3 February, 2016
Quote:
Do you know how to put it in 96k mode



From what I remember the mixer was at 96k by default.
Rebelguy 11:48 PM - 3 February, 2016
Quote:
My company services and repairs rane pioneer and denon. If your using denon 1700 mixer with cdjs its hard ti beat the sound quality in 96k. With TT's rane is going to most likely have the best sound quality. Either the 64 or mp2015 which is a true house club mixer. Pioneer is very cheap transforners and they copy most of the rane mixers interally. Japanese also dont make good speakers. They mostly copy. Also they use cheap caps and resisters you will notice when there mixers under heavy volume for time sound quality will diminish. All my techs are pro djs as well we all agree. Start to listen closely to all the different mixers. As a sound engineer my ear is more then seasoned from setting up pro concerts around the world for celebrity events. We are a union company its are ass if we make mistakes


Have you had a chance to test the Allen & Heath DB4. I have wanted to demo this mixer for awhile.
nyfl2008 12:37 AM - 4 February, 2016
Allen & Heath is Denon just so you know yes its the same components they use from the dnx1700. Its beefed up with features. But the sound is excellent. What most of these mixers lack is that Rane has the best boards cross faders and channel faders nobody can make them like Rane. Rane actually builds it the same way as the alarm magnets on your windows or sliding doors that's why their feeders or cross fader never wears out. Theres just magnets and magnets dont wear out ever. Theres a hug patent on it so Denon uses a flex fader i say there excellent but they will wear out pioneer same thing. Id rather buy allen then a pioneer anyday if you want sound quality but for bright lights and features pioneer.
Rebelguy 12:50 AM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
Allen & Heath is Denon just so you know yes its the same components they use from the dnx1700.


At the time the DB4 was released yes. Not anymore though. Separate companies.
nyfl2008 1:38 AM - 4 February, 2016
Yes but still the Denon build inside you know your stuff. Goodman ! We just did a hugs event in vegas we set up 2 DB4 for 2 djs cant say names but thats what our setup called for and i noticed along with our crew that our main board that receives the signal from DB4 to our amps and processors the signal was reading 8.5 on my signal meter all night. These are not like db levels a dj goes by this is the actual voltage of the signal. This mixer was one of the best i ever worked with it holds its voltage steady the whole night. again this has a lot to do with the type of capacitors transformer in the mixer etc. pioneer mixer's usually run around 6.5 7.2 which means they fluctuate that means you're not getting the sound that you get in the first hour of when you're playing heavy volume with the mixer. Believe me I don't want to be a pioneer hater but so many people out there think the pioneers the best equipment and it's really because they invented the CDJ's so that big invention is what keeps their legacy running . But trust me in the studio business that I'm in and in the concerts we set up that we do laugh when people say let's use pioneer because most people always just say pioneer it's the best and usually they don't know anything about other pieces of equipment that are much better . but I would agree if I were going to use CD Jay's I'm definitely running I'm here or what I have is my own set of the 3900s which I really like . But my main source is turntables. Theres so many pro djs we set up for that only use pioneer we dont have a choice we have to honor what they want. But when Rane hits the stage its honesly the best product and sound quality out there. The readings stay at 9 all night ir day long and there preamp is by far the best in the market for built in mixer type.
DJ Unique 2:28 AM - 4 February, 2016
Awesome info nyfl2008.

I have always said that my ears prefer the sound of Rane or the original Allen & Heath (pre-Denon). I have never liked the harshness of the Pioneer mixers.
nyfl2008 2:52 AM - 4 February, 2016
You know your stuff anytime
Niro 6:27 AM - 4 February, 2016
Nyfl2008, good info. Thanks
WarpNote 9:13 AM - 4 February, 2016
Good info nyfl2008, would love to hear your opinions on the new DJM-S9 & DJM900nxs mk2 mixers when you get the chance.
nyfl2008 11:12 AM - 4 February, 2016
On the djm s9 theres been many small issues i believe the big issue is the build quality. The paint chips off the knobs and faders. The crossfader defaults back to the incorrect cut in and cut out position. Theres many of them bring returned. They really based it upon a Rane 62 with big pads. If you look at the eq area its pretty much a copy of Rane. I just couldnt see spending thst type of money on a mixer lke that with a cross fader thsts still never going to perform like Rane. Also sound quality is good not great its not any different the sound from all there other mixers. We only set up pioneer if the stage calls for it. Im surprised why are people buying djm s9 over the TTM57// thsts and incredible mixer. I think its because the issues with EL capitian update.
WarpNote 1:02 PM - 4 February, 2016
Thanks nyfl2008 !!

Reason for asking, is that I own the 62, the DJM900SRT and the DJM-S9.
When I hooked up the S9 on a Turbosound system in the club, it sounded very nice, very much like the 62 on the same system, warm, clear, not as harsh as the 900.

We did open the S9, and there sure was a lot of plastic in there. Will be interesting to see how long it holds up. On my "gold" version, I haven't had any paint chips myself, maybe I baby my stuff more. Time probably will tell.

On a user level, the S9 is slightly more versatile than the 62 and 57mk2 IMO, both when it comes to FX and the performance pads. Once the new firmware came out, cut in/out/lag position have been constant and stable for me. The feel of both 62 and S9 crossfaders are great IMO, and I like the tension adjust on the S9. I was surprised to see the "floating" design of the crossfader on the S9. BTW, I heard of a few issues with the rail carriers on the 62 crossfader, something about Rane changing them after the 57 was discontinued?

The S9 sure is a copy, even down to how they placed the fx buttons, (look at the 64), but it's not a bad copy IMO, and the FX trigger itself is a LOT of fun. It's also cheaper than the Rane mixer, at least in my part of the world.
Danalovesdick 5:40 PM - 4 February, 2016
Denon
The worse company to make anything .
3700s junk
Headphones junk
I spent well over 800 dollars on 3 sets of 3700s. One set the platters didn't turn, the second set the same.
The third followed , and to top it all off.. when I finally switched go serato and no cds.. they lasted 9 months thereafter and of course no warranty .
Junk just like this tables.
Spend the money on a good set of turntables .
Be it technics or reloops.
Don't wast your time on mediocrity.
Denon is horrible!!
Gio Alex 5:43 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
Denon
The worse company to make anything .
3700s junk
Headphones junk
I spent well over 800 dollars on 3 sets of 3700s. One set the platters didn't turn, the second set the same.
The third followed , and to top it all off.. when I finally switched go serato and no cds.. they lasted 9 months thereafter and of course no warranty .
Junk just like this tables.
Spend the money on a good set of turntables .
Be it technics or reloops.
Don't wast your time on mediocrity.
Denon is horrible!!


Complete BS. Not your experience but your assessment of the brand. Sounds like you had bad luck but to say Denon is horrible is PURE bs. Also, should be worst company, not "worse"company to make anything.

Clearly you haven't been djing long enough to know really bad companies.
Danalovesdick 5:45 PM - 4 February, 2016
Worst*
Yes
Worse
Least great
Junk
Danalovesdick 5:46 PM - 4 February, 2016
Denon is junk.
Hands down
Joee 5:46 PM - 4 February, 2016
do you work for pioneer?


:P
Danalovesdick 5:46 PM - 4 February, 2016
So
Joee 5:47 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
Denon is junk.
Hands down

i have to disagree
Danalovesdick 5:47 PM - 4 February, 2016
Lol
Joee 5:47 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
So

i knew it
Danalovesdick 5:47 PM - 4 February, 2016
Customer service sucks too.
Gio Alex 5:48 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
do you work for pioneer?


:P


I knew it too lol
Gio Alex 5:48 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
Customer service sucks too.


You love dick.
Joee 5:48 PM - 4 February, 2016
shouldn't you be giving dana something? instead of being on the serato forum
Danalovesdick 5:48 PM - 4 February, 2016
I own 3 sets of turntables
Technics X2
Reloop.
Can't ever go wrong
Gio Alex 5:49 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
shouldn't you be giving dana something? instead of being on the serato forum


Hahaha I was thinking the same. Assuming Dana is a lady.
Danalovesdick 5:49 PM - 4 February, 2016
I wish I could
Joee 5:49 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Customer service sucks too.


You love dick.

well in that case shouldn't you be giving yourself something Danalovesdick
Joee 5:50 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
I wish I could


you wish you could give it to yourself? WOOOO to much info there buddy
Danalovesdick 5:50 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
shouldn't you be giving dana something? instead of being on the serato forum

She's do hot
Wish I could
Joee 5:51 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
She's dude hot
Wish I could


got you noted
Danalovesdick 5:51 PM - 4 February, 2016
8----D
Gio Alex 5:53 PM - 4 February, 2016
I love how he/she put Technics and Reloops in the same caliber. No disrespect to Reloop, but come on.
Danalovesdick 5:57 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
I love how he/she put Technics and Reloops in the same caliber. No disrespect to Reloop, but come on.

Have you ever owned a set of reloops ?
I own a set, don't knock them till you try them
Gio Alex 6:01 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
I love how he/she put Technics and Reloops in the same caliber. No disrespect to Reloop, but come on.

Have you ever owned a set of reloops ?
I own a set, don't knock them till you try them


Do you read?
Gio Alex 6:05 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
I love how he/she put Technics and Reloops in the same caliber. No disrespect to Reloop, but come on.

Have you ever owned a set of reloops ?
I own a set, don't knock them till you try them


I never said there was something wrong with reloops. They are not the same build as technics though.

You start off in this thread by saying Denon is the worst brand. Which is just ridiculous. Also, I can't really take someone's opinion seriously that started djing last year.
eugguy 7:36 PM - 4 February, 2016
Denon is definitely above Numark and Stanton in my book. Vestax used to make some fly and stable shit, but that was back in the day. Innovation soon becomes masturbation without stability and functionality at it's core. I'm sure Denon's new table will compete well with Pioneer's/Reloop's tables.
nyfl2008 8:02 PM - 4 February, 2016
Guys guys ease up! The reason of why the denon 3700's were not that great is because they were not fully developed in time. 1 year later denon pissed djs off that bought the 3700s and made the 3900s. Now the 3900s were built around the specs of technics 12's pretty dam close. 3700's was not what denon wanted but the 3900's are superior for the cost and i would say either buy 3900s or the cdj 2000 there both great
nyfl2008 8:03 PM - 4 February, 2016
Most people sold the 3700s right away that hurt the look of denon and trust with djs after they were giving denon a chance
Gio Alex 8:07 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
Guys guys ease up! The reason of why the denon 3700's were not that great is because they were not fully developed in time. 1 year later denon pissed djs off that bought the 3700s and made the 3900s. Now the 3900s were built around the specs of technics 12's pretty dam close. 3700's was not what denon wanted but the 3900's are superior for the cost and i would say either buy 3900s or the cdj 2000 there both great


The 3900s didn't come out a year after the 3700. Also Danalovesdick was stating that it's the worst company. Denon has been making hi-end products for many years so it's a ridiculous statement, or at the least a major exaggeration over one product.
Gio Alex 8:08 PM - 4 February, 2016
Quote:
Most people sold the 3700s right away that hurt the look of denon and trust with djs after they were giving denon a chance


I don't recall the 3700 being that bad. Are you thinking of the 3500s?
Gio Alex 8:19 PM - 4 February, 2016
In any case, we're very well aware that this person was trolling, and we were pretty much going along with it. lol

Might be a pioneer employee. haha
nyfl2008 9:14 PM - 4 February, 2016
Yes guys correction the 3500's
nyfl2008 9:15 PM - 4 February, 2016
But i will say the 3900's are much improved over the 3700.
teemac111 10:24 PM - 17 March, 2016
Denon 3900's & 3700's > Cdjs
Meekeen 11:58 PM - 20 March, 2016
@nyfl2008
Absolutely amazing info nyfl2008. Thank you so very much. There is nothing like info from a person who actually works/services/repairs DJ gear and is a sound engineer.

Can I please ask you to advise on two things? one is mixer and the other is turntable.

1. Mixer
I am fed up with waiting for 4 channel XDJ-RX that will have DVS support so I am going to go ahead and just buy it (XDJ-RX because it costs $1500 and gives me a very close experience to nexus2 setup which goes for around $6000-7000 and ability to learn mixing in rekordbox ecosystem so when I show at the club I won't shit my pants).
Apart from that I want to purchase/or maybe instead of XDJ-RX a mixer and 2TTs. Which mixer would you recommend for best audio quality please?
I like how the Pioneer look and feel but they are too expensive, digital architecture (have DACs) and a lot of people say they sound harsh.
Rane? Well I know you're saying they are amazing but I don't think I can afford a Rane mixer (as expensive as Pioneers) and also I am not a fan how they look and feel (a bit 'coarse').
So there is not much left there. I was thinking about:
Denon DN-X1600 (I cannot afford DN-X1700) - a lot of people say that it is a really good mixer + I love the way it looks. On the minus side it is rather old product and doesn't have Serato's certification so would have to buy Rane's SL2/3/4 for it. What do you think about it? Also, can it run 96kHz like you mentioned with DN-X1700 for that amazing sound quality?
Xone:23 - I like the way it looks and it is quite cheap. It is entirely analog so no DACs messing up with the music going from TTs to speakers/monitors. That would be awesome (having an all analog mixer) as when not practicing/listening casually I would like to get maximum sound quality so the analog mixer would be best right? (As far as other AH's mixers: 43C seems to be plagued with issues, 62/92 are just so old and DB2/4 have stability issues and don't work with Macs well)
Reloop RMX80 - because it looks so much like Pioneer's mixers and is so cheap where I live (around $500). Yes it has full digital architecture unlike Xone23 so that's a minus + it has no Midi capability (would have to buy something like reloop neon) or internal sound card certified by Serato.
What do you think dude? When I rule out Pioneer and Rane (both too expensive and I want max audio quality which Pioneer is lacking and I am not a fan of Rane's 'appearance'/feel) and the above 3 choices (DNX1600, xone:23 and reloop rmx80) there are no much more choices right?

ps. I didn't know that Pioneer is such a....copycat.


2. I will need turntables (two) to complement my setup (no matter if I go XDJ-RX or mixer+SL2/3/4). I will using them for casual listening and mixing analog vinyl records as well as for DVS.
In my country SL1200mk2/mk5 go for around $700 US dollars for one turntable in refurbished condition and quite frankly....I am not sure if I am ready to drop $1400 for a pair of these, that are really old and dunno what people have been doing with them previously. I know I know, they are amazing and so on but.....
What else is really worth looking at in terms of turntables plz? What I want is as close look and performance to SL1200s as possible. I nearly decided on AudioTechnica AT-LP120USB but then came across those opinions saying that this TT is good for casual listening and maybe scratching but not good for mixing (I am a mix DJ only, don't have any intention in scratching at all) as they 'drift' and that 'because of their higher wow and flutter' they are no good replacement for mixing/blending house/techno tracks as 'locking' them is harder. They also say that the platters sometime are warped and that platter reacts to pitch adjustments with a noticeable delay.
So what else is there? Stanton's ST150? - they say it's good but I don't like the rounded looks and rounded buttons - it looks more like a toy because of that.
Soooo, what do you think about Reloop's RP7000/8000 please?
They look really nice - very similar to black Technics actually. They have metal finish too and go in my country for $400 for one brand new which is like half price of used (albeit fully restored/refurbished) Technics. I also think I read somewhere that although they are based on Super OEM, Reloop has tried it's outmost to make them better then your standard Super OEM. When I look at Reloop's page they state that RP7000/8000 have a wow/flutter of 0.01% which is the same as Technics. I guess what I am asking is not about their reliability and durability (as only time will tell how they fare) but if indeed these are only SuperOEM turntables on the market now which have wow and flutter low enough for use for mix DJs playing house/techno??

If you have a second please reply. Your opinion is crucial for me nyfl2008. Thanks!!!!
nyfl2008 5:13 PM - 22 March, 2016
Hey guy,

thanks for the reply. i hear you on all your talking about. Use the reloops. I set up many in exclusive NYC night clubs all technic djs love em. the issue is people are afraid to try something new other then Technic. when they do they like them better or the same. very little vibration issues, much better then technics 1200. but have the right dj table and your fine or i can assist you how to professionally replace the legs on relapse.
nyfl2008 5:14 PM - 22 March, 2016
im a large pioneer vendor and dealer i don't work direct for them but many of my colleges do. So i know what there up to.
Meekeen 9:51 PM - 22 March, 2016
Hey nyfl2008

Thank you so very much for taking your time to reply - it is much appreciated.

1. So Reloop in the end? I knew it! :D
I think it is the only SuperOEM TT out there with wow and flutter of just 0.01%WRMS which is the same as Technics (all other SuperOEMs have higher wow and flutter, even ST150s with 0.1%) - which is very important (I guess?) for mix DJs (who pitch blend) to lock a groove, and not so much for scratch DJs right (and casual listening) ?
Even if VL12 now will have the same low wow and flutter as Reloop8000 I will still prefer 8000as it has midi controls and VL12 doesn't.

2. Any advice on the mixer please nyfl2008?
Especially I wonder if you have any inside knowledge about Xone:23? I am really interested in this particular mixer (although I also like DN-X600/1600 and RMX80) as it is fully analog architecture (no DACs), as it has great headroom of 20dB and amazing rated output of 28dBu (+it is Allen&Heath so very good sound quality comes with it by default)-and it is fairly cheap at $300. And poeple online say that it sounds absolutely amazing.

3. Do you have any kind of inside knowledge of XDJ-RX all in one dj system? Have you looked inside one/listened to one or anything?

4. Lastly nyfl2008, I REALLY think that if you made a video and posted it on youtube on how to make your trick with liquid Sorbothane (I don't know how to do it at all or even where to buy this liquid) being put/injected into the tonearm - people would start getting tattoos saying 'nyfl2008' on their foreheads :D
The special tables and special legs for TTs you mention are quite expensive so I think the trick with Sorbothane would be of much more interest to a larger group of people.
Can you also imagine RP8000 with its default/factory wow and flatter at 0.01% AND with the tricky Sorbothane done to it? This must be kind of heaven (I was actually thinking, is there a way to measure wow and flutter on a particular TT? I dunno, with a special tool or special disk or something?).

Thank you very much again nyfl2008. Your knowledge shared on here is greatly appreciated by the community.
I am sorry again for writing so much - I am just passionate about it.
Have a great day in Florida ;)

ps1. How much is the Ortofone tonearm made with using Sorbothane? Can you plz show us a link to it?
ps2. Can we plz clarify again what Reloops really are? Are they SuperOEM Hanpins (like ST150 or AT-1240) or are they 'based on Hanpin's SuperOEM but distinctively different/removed from them' (with one of the most notable characteristic being wow and flutter low enough to equal Technics at 0.01%-no other Hanpin's SuperOEM can match that) or are they just 'inspired by Hanpin's SuperOEM but all in all not a Hanpin' (so like VL12) ?
ps3. I think that the debate about what brand new TT to get instead of getting a used SL1200s is even more relative these days in the fact that the all Technics all new SL1200GAE/G will cost........$4,000 each - so absolutely out of financial reach of....everyone :D
nyfl2008 10:57 PM - 22 March, 2016
Next time i do the tonearm i will put it on youtube. All the mixers you mentioned are good. Rane and Denon really are the the best audio quality. As for scratching Rane cant be beat with there legendary cross fader. Denon has the sound quality over all the 1600 which can do 96,000khz still no other mixer can match that. Rane still on 48,000khz sounds excellent but theres a big difference. If your not using cdjs i wouldnt worry about the hertz the 48khz will be a warmer tone duplicating vinyl more. I prefer this with mixing live. As for studio and recording it is nice to have the 96khz available. The Sl4 can produce thst and the Denon 1600 and 1700 can
nyfl2008 11:03 PM - 22 March, 2016
I wouldnt buy used technics its just a waste of time so many years later with wondering if they need repairs or adjustments or you purchase a used pair it's working fine and then all of a sudden an hour or two later you notice the tonearm needs to be replaced. There are many checks that I go through if you're working with a pair of technics. But there's always something small that I find and normally you can get away with it for that gig but if you don't buy a used pair and pretty much break it all down and replace whatever needs to be replaced pitch freighte but there's always something small that I find and normally you can get away with it for that gig but if you don't buy a used pair and pretty much break it all down and replace whatever needs to be replaced pitch Fader , RCA wiring, etc. there's so many upgrades that I've done to them and then after the results you're still making small adjustments or wondering if the modification cause one of the original parts that were still good not to be able to work properly with it. They just end up costing you a fortune unless you buy them new that's if you can get your hands on them. I actually have four decks 4 - 1210s brand-new in the box never opened sealed and they been sitting in my stockroom for years. Two of them are signed models i'm just waiting for the right buyer
nyfl2008 11:09 PM - 22 March, 2016
The ortofon tonearm is about $300 - $350 already pre insulated. All the pro djs and myself we cant get enough vibration to make it judder from bass or even if i put 2 - 15" subs below the table. It works. Also theres a great turntable platform with sorbethen feet its excellent as well. Only about $200 and it holds both TT's. Send me your email i will send you a pic of our reloop studio setup in progress
Meekeen 12:42 AM - 23 March, 2016
Hey nyfl2008
Thank you so very much again.
my email is:
meekeen@gmail.com
thanks!!!!!!!!!!
AaronF 8:25 PM - 28 March, 2016
Those decks are not a Hanpin copy like all the rest. I met the Denon rep. They made the entire table in house from the ground up. Excited to try one myself when they arrive at Sam Ash or GC
nyfl2008 10:48 PM - 28 March, 2016
Yes your correct i have used them already there excellent. If I were to compare it to the Stanton's , Reloop 7000 or 8000 and the Technics I would have to say they're all pretty much the same exact feel the Reloops have better torque the Stantons have better torque. Denon has more than enough to torque though. As far as vibration isolation it seems to be that the Denon's really took a lot of attention to that one particular design . The Reloops are excellent with vibration isolation but you do need to do a small amount of improvements with the Reloops to get them to perform with no vibration issues. But by using a good secure table of course it won't be a problem. The Denon's and the Reloops are the right choice. Technics is just older and didnt have this chance to make these improvements. Overall I would sum it all up by saying I prefer the Reloop TT's over the Denon's. They just have more of a Technics feeling to them. There tonearm seems a little jumpy and i made many adjustments to try to stop that. But there motor is a little more accurate on keeping serato from fluctuating on the bpm counter.
Luke Annett 3:06 AM - 30 March, 2016
Does the Denon fluctuate more than the Reloop in Serato?
nyfl2008 3:51 AM - 30 March, 2016
Great question, as we all know or if you don't know, depending on how good the data and how good the bit rate quality is on the track that your plane can cause fluctuations or how accurate and how old the track is can also cause fluctuations where the turntables or not the actual problem. So I tested it with a newer track which was a house track that I know does not fluctuate at all. I tried two different types of cartridges and two different types of styluses. The Denon's had more movement on fluxuation where I would think that they would have payed more attention to that. At times it was very accurate other times it would not be but in the same pattern. Which told me it probably has something to do with their drive motor. Also I noticed when you turn on the LED under the platter, theres a small click in the audio which is the separate power supply they use internally so the motor does not share power from it. Smart but not so smart because they obviously did not use a filter on the power supply for the LED so it does not make a small very small minute pop. Actually sad they didnt correct it. And I also didn't say anything to them it's a good friend of mine that allowed me to get my hands on it before pretty much most people. But i did bring it up recently. Still overall Reloop has the game. But theres going to be improvements on it and they have made some all ready for the first version.
Meekeen 1:18 AM - 11 April, 2016
so what we know is DL12 fluctuates/drifts - not very good for mix DJs I suppose (scratch DJs won't mind that much I suppose)

great info nyfl2008, thanks for sharing this with the community

and as you say.....Reloop 7000/8000 is the way to go. Especially when know how to tune it and put liquid sorbethane into the tonearm ;)
Meekeen 1:55 AM - 11 April, 2016
also nyfl2008,

to sum up your great previous post about mixer advice:

Using CDJs (as you say: Pioneer CDJs will be the best choice):
get Denon X1600-X1700 (will give absolutely best sound quality at 96kHz)

Using TTs (as you say: Reloop 7000/8000 TTs will be best choice):
get Rane mixer (best pre-amps in the business+48kHz will duplicate vinyl more then the Denon's 96kHz).

Being scratch DJ:
get Rane mixer (legendary cross fader)

Did I get the above all correct? :)

Couple questions with this nyfl2008, please advise.

1. How does Allen&Heath fits into the above 'mixer buying map'? :D I mean DB2/4 are great mixers (although have DACs so they are 'digital') but they seem unstable and don't like working with Mac laptops? Xone:23 being a great and cheap mixer which is entirely analog (no DACs) so it would be better for TTs and vinyl/analog records? Xone:43 - I have read it has plenty of issues (filter pop when engaging, light bleed on VUs and so on). Xone:62 and 92 being great mixers but a bit too old?
2. I thought that Denon's 2 channel X600 also offers 96kHz sound and not only X1600-1700?
3. I read that Pioneer's newly released DJM-900nxs2 is also 96kHz DSP so the same as Denon now? Or did you intentionally omit this mixer as Pioneer don't sound/perform good so choosing their mixer is not a good idea from the outset (as opposed to choosing Pioneer's CDJs - which are the best in the business) ?

many thanks for your advice and input
greatly appreciated
peace
DJTorchmusic 1:37 AM - 5 July, 2016
Back to this Turntable, I couldn't find it anywhere including the Denon Website itself.
Reticuli 10:44 PM - 7 July, 2016
The first tabletop scratchable CD DJ unit was a dual-purpose version of a rackmount unit by Tascam. That company spent nearly a decade putting out firmware updates for it with great loyalty to their customers. Second was from Numark, which got bitten by the great capacitor plague when their OEM started using "bad copy" power supply caps. Third was famously from Pioneer, which not only introduced the novel touch platter (though it was pressure-sensitive and not capacitive) and superior hard buttons with excellent tact switches. Numark (OEM?) and American DJ (Hanpin as OEM) released early units next with capacitive touch.

While some of my favorite linkable DJ media players right now are Hanpin, other than their problematic tact switches and soft buttons, in my opinion the worst pressure-sensitive jog implementation was on the Vestax CD units, also from Hanpin. Right around when the capacitance touch jogs starting coming out, you had Denon TT platters a go with the lovely DN-S5000 that still gives me butterflies in the stomach. It even had Burr Browns that wiped the floor with the CDJ1000. In my opinion, Pioneer has been playing catch-up with Denon's DAC implementations for a long time, with only in recent years finally getting close.

Enough of the history lesson.

I'd be curious how you made the measurements on the Pioneer mixers' power supplies sagging later in the night, and was it the output line level or the power draw? Substantial power draw sagging should alter the stability of the unit overall, which is hard to believe when it became the club standard.

The Denon DN-x1700 uses a custom-design discrete-component phono stage, so putting Rane's phono preamp above it would need a justification.

The DJM-800 has a 96khz output setting, and all the digital mixers you've been discussing do not process internally at their max SPDIF output, rather they process massively oversampled and either in 24bit or 32bit, depending on the model. Granted, the Denons use a nice implementation of AD's programmable SHARC, but even the reboot of Numark's PPD line that Alesis helped design for them utilized TI single-purpose chips and proprietary Alesis DSPs that oversample -- hence the reason the 9000 sample-rate divided down to 44.1khz for SPDIF even though it inputted at 48khz. The Numark X5 is basically just the PPD 01 without the effects section and with a different crossfader.

Tascam, curiously, also beat everyone else on the first digital mixer front, too, but TI had not yet developed a single-purpose resampling chip, so the Tascam SPDIF inputs had D/A conversion a gain stage with trim pot, and then another A/D conversion. Numark left out the SPDIF ins on the 01 and had them on the 9000 once TI finally invented one... the first ever true digital in & out DJ mixer

The mk2 to mk5 (no G and not the mk6) Technics use a linear electric feedback servo motor that continuously makes adjustments as-needed, and has specially-designed dampening feet that, even now, work surprisingly well on their own -- significantly better than the Hanpins and Numarks' feet, though admittedly most people don't use the Numark ones properly (extended away from the body). The Hanpins and Numarks (no idea about the Denon 151 or the Audio Technica 120) use a pulse type motor, with only a few of the highest-end models updating frequently enough to be considered very low W&F. While other companies attempted to replicate the direct linear electric feedback servo in audiophile tables decades ago (Kenwood, JVC, Denon, etc), the only DJ brand I know for sure who actually attempted it was Gemini, and for some reason those decks did not sell well.

The use of DSP-controlled motor on a very few of these highest-end models has tended to improve things further. The largest issue with any of these decks, even Technics, is the feedback (or optical speed-sensing on the Hanpins) lagging and resulting in the platter fighting slip mat friction. This is one of the reasons the ever-present quartz lock on the 1200 mk2 is sometimes soldered out. You get more W&F, but less fighting against the manipulation of the record by the motor.

I have not seen any indication that the Denon VL12 is copying the Hanpin motor. I have not looked inside this unit or talked to their designers, though. Considering Denon's vast turntable experience, I'm not sure why they would copy a pulse design like that if they wanted to make an audiophile-grade DJ deck.

While the Pioneer turntable is indeed a Hanpin, which, other than it not being a Technics is not the end of the world, it has foam inside the tonearm to help with damping direct acoustic vibration of the cartridge and tonearm, as well as stylus roaring issues, which is most obvious to the ear if you reverse the first downbeat to the silence before it. Technics weren't the worst on that, an honor I believe rests with Numark, though their arms are substantially lower-mass (great for hi-fi and audiophile styli) and improved for scratching. The foam should help the inferior Hanpin arm, though the bearings are still lower grade.
deezlee 4:25 PM - 8 July, 2016
Yo , please school us real quick on the diff between the m5gs and the other techs is as far as how they pull against manipulation of the record.
I've heard different things.
Reticuli 11:15 PM - 9 July, 2016
I have not personally used the DSP-controlled Technics, so I cannot tell you if they fight against the record manipulation more or less than a Mk2 with the quartz lock still always within the servo feedback. With how much people complain about belt drives being terrible, one of the greatest mixing decks ever made was a simple Thorans belt drive unit -- motor decoupled from a heavy platter, pitch control, and no quartz lock.
DJ Irv 1:13 AM - 10 July, 2016
I have the GLD's same as the M5G's. Besides the pitch being digital I can't tell them apart from other Technics. The pitch itself acts a little different but, it's not a big deal to me.
nyfl2008 3:54 AM - 12 July, 2016
Just got my hands on new Techs GLD's For the price I would wait till they decide they won't sell in the real world.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 4:40 AM - 12 July, 2016
Class is in session.
Reticuli 6:48 PM - 12 July, 2016
Reticuli 6:49 PM - 12 July, 2016
Rane sold to inMusic.
nyfl2008 7:13 AM - 26 July, 2016
Ok Gentlemen. I been on the new Techs GLD's for 2 weeks in pro home studio that i do specific testing for various known big name artists that i set up for around the U.S. I was given the pair to already modify the pitch control. I was able to draw my own bluprints on the circuitry. I measured all the voltages and long story short. I meet with my client and Technics had given him another pair which is 4 now. I have a pair to work with as he is and myself are working together to make these modifications. The digital pitch control unit is really a pos. I'm really upset because it seems to be done deliberately as certified electronics engineer and technician i knew it as soon as i saw the cheap boards and caps along with pretty much the same exact design as the 1210 MK5. I cant explain to much here as i was told to speak with respect on the forums.As I have much respect for Technics. But I always like to be honest and we all know its the only way to get real answers. Back to the tech discussion. The platter mechanism is of high quality and probably will outlast anything on the market. there is a microprocessor constantly reviewing motor speeds and correcting itself. Impressed? Not really. I'm not either. The shell is better quality the preamo looks like a quarter and it tested differently in both units. Small amounts of over volrage i was reading on the RCA's going into my Rane mixer and the Serato scopes did show my left channel was way hotter due to the deck issues. Huum $4000.00 for 2 units. I can get very techy with you guys if you like but i'm going to just sum this up. I switched out the decks to my old techs 1210 MK5 enjoyed that. Then my modified Stanton St150's. My client dropped in my Lab. we tested The new GLD' against the Reloop RP 7000 & 8000 which are same except for midi add ons. Overall the Reloops have the most accurate drive unit the least amount of fluxuation. All decks were 99 percent level and with Shure carts M447 and also Orotofon St150's. My personal favorite also because i can DJ as a pro and i work personnally setting up specific equipment for major producers and Production companies. I have been scratching , mixing testing you name it with music. Since i wasa young teen in 1982 i was 14 scratching the Ahhhh scratch. My opinion is its nothing like you guys think. Reloop, Stanton, Audio Technica, Pioneer are still further ahead. Theres just to many reused small components at low quality besides the processor they probably did that to have an edge. I believe the Techniics is just putting out their new product. They understand that because their iconic just going to put a fancy high price on them and honestly are professional opinions as professionals the reloops , Stantons are the choice to go with. Please understand that I can't get too technical but if you like to know anything please feel free to ask any questions on this forum. Thank you .
nyfl2008 7:17 AM - 26 July, 2016
Correction on the cartridge ( Ortofon ST120's) not 150.


Thank you
DJ Irv 12:06 PM - 26 July, 2016
I'm confused new Technics GLD's? Do you mean GAE? The Technics GLD's came out in 2004.
nyfl2008 12:18 PM - 26 July, 2016
Yes , my apologies i keep thinking of the Reloop limited model GLD. But yes the new GAE I was discussing
nyfl2008 12:29 PM - 26 July, 2016
To add to my testing on the techniques GAE. We have performed a vibration test and all sorts of situations. The differences are so close to the 1210 MK5 that I was blown away that there wasn't that much of an improvement. We found that vibration issues are almost identical between the lastest GAE model and the 1210 MK5. I also tested the Stanton 150s and the Reloop 7000. We installed a pair of Isonie feet which are $200 for 4 feet pretty much. Pretty much knocked down all the vibration on all three different model turntables. With a sub underneath the table that we were using to perform the test we noticed that they all did pick up small amounts of vibration with the Isonoe feet installed. Stanton and the Reloop had the least amount of absorbed shock to the housing and the tone arm. These are the facts of science. My opinon is the come back of the Techs was something that they thought they thought out and were really into reviving the turntable. My opinion again I believe that it was just done more for marketing and to help Panasonic to make a bigger dent in the industry.
nyfl2008 12:41 PM - 26 July, 2016
Many of my clients which are professional concert pro DJs with all the money in hand being able to easily afford the GAE's i was informed by 5 pro DJ's they wouldn't actually purchase them for the price they are asking. Luckily we got them for no charge. Thank you to Technics. But i really hope they get there product at the level of a newer high quality. It just really shows that the facts are already there for us to see which we have proven to ourselves by testing these units, and it looks pretty much more like in my Opinion, they would either make a newer model with the same Drive unit and then replace all the other surrounding components. We all know manufacturers do this and it happens a lot of times. But what about all the people that have spent good money and hard earned money on a product that's supposed to be the number one out there. Thats the part where i really may be the actual last model made.
DJ Irv 1:38 PM - 26 July, 2016
You're pretty passionate about this. Why not be the first one to crank out a video including the tear down and tests? We would all watch it.
nyfl2008 2:21 PM - 26 July, 2016
Would luv to soon as i leave this weekend and get back to NY . Did you guys see my video on how to kill turntable vibration 95 %. Its the video on injecting the tonearm with sorbethen. If your a dvds or wax guy then will be finally happy using your TT's without any worries or missed tracking.
djkurve 9:21 PM - 26 July, 2016
HighTopFade 8:44 PM - 27 July, 2016
Thanks for posting nyfl2008. Always educational
lumas13 6:59 PM - 28 July, 2016
I'm waiting for that guy that broke down the PLX to break down that GAE...
nyfl2008 9:11 PM - 28 July, 2016
Im pretty sure they wont get much better. There turntables not digital cdj's . Things that you need to deal with and maintenance required on them. I myself will never let go of the turntable that's all I use . But the most important things are sorting out any vibration issues and if you know how to modify you can modify your tonearm by Injecting sorbethen inside. Thats how we do it. Or use an ortofon tonearm already done for you.
DJTorchmusic 3:00 AM - 2 August, 2016
Quote:
The first tabletop scratchable CD DJ unit was a dual-purpose version of a rackmount unit by Tascam. That company spent nearly a decade putting out firmware updates for it with great loyalty to their customers. Second was from Numark, which got bitten by the great capacitor plague when their OEM started using "bad copy" power supply caps. Third was famously from Pioneer, which not only introduced the novel touch platter (though it was pressure-sensitive and not capacitive) and superior hard buttons with excellent tact switches. Numark (OEM?) and American DJ (Hanpin as OEM) released early units next with capacitive touch.

While some of my favorite linkable DJ media players right now are Hanpin, other than their problematic tact switches and soft buttons, in my opinion the worst pressure-sensitive jog implementation was on the Vestax CD units, also from Hanpin. Right around when the capacitance touch jogs starting coming out, you had Denon TT platters a go with the lovely DN-S5000 that still gives me butterflies in the stomach. It even had Burr Browns that wiped the floor with the CDJ1000. In my opinion, Pioneer has been playing catch-up with Denon's DAC implementations for a long time, with only in recent years finally getting close.

Enough of the history lesson.

I'd be curious how you made the measurements on the Pioneer mixers' power supplies sagging later in the night, and was it the output line level or the power draw? Substantial power draw sagging should alter the stability of the unit overall, which is hard to believe when it became the club standard.

The Denon DN-x1700 uses a custom-design discrete-component phono stage, so putting Rane's phono preamp above it would need a justification.

The DJM-800 has a 96khz output setting, and all the digital mixers you've been discussing do not process internally at their max SPDIF output, rather they process massively oversampled and either in 24bit or 32bit, depending on the model. Granted, the Denons use a nice implementation of AD's programmable SHARC, but even the reboot of Numark's PPD line that Alesis helped design for them utilized TI single-purpose chips and proprietary Alesis DSPs that oversample -- hence the reason the 9000 sample-rate divided down to 44.1khz for SPDIF even though it inputted at 48khz. The Numark X5 is basically just the PPD 01 without the effects section and with a different crossfader.

Tascam, curiously, also beat everyone else on the first digital mixer front, too, but TI had not yet developed a single-purpose resampling chip, so the Tascam SPDIF inputs had D/A conversion a gain stage with trim pot, and then another A/D conversion. Numark left out the SPDIF ins on the 01 and had them on the 9000 once TI finally invented one... the first ever true digital in & out DJ mixer

The mk2 to mk5 (no G and not the mk6) Technics use a linear electric feedback servo motor that continuously makes adjustments as-needed, and has specially-designed dampening feet that, even now, work surprisingly well on their own -- significantly better than the Hanpins and Numarks' feet, though admittedly most people don't use the Numark ones properly (extended away from the body). The Hanpins and Numarks (no idea about the Denon 151 or the Audio Technica 120) use a pulse type motor, with only a few of the highest-end models updating frequently enough to be considered very low W&F. While other companies attempted to replicate the direct linear electric feedback servo in audiophile tables decades ago (Kenwood, JVC, Denon, etc), the only DJ brand I know for sure who actually attempted it was Gemini, and for some reason those decks did not sell well.

The use of DSP-controlled motor on a very few of these highest-end models has tended to improve things further. The largest issue with any of these decks, even Technics, is the feedback (or optical speed-sensing on the Hanpins) lagging and resulting in the platter fighting slip mat friction. This is one of the reasons the ever-present quartz lock on the 1200 mk2 is sometimes soldered out. You get more W&F, but less fighting against the manipulation of the record by the motor.

I have not seen any indication that the Denon VL12 is copying the Hanpin motor. I have not looked inside this unit or talked to their designers, though. Considering Denon's vast turntable experience, I'm not sure why they would copy a pulse design like that if they wanted to make an audiophile-grade DJ deck.

While the Pioneer turntable is indeed a Hanpin, which, other than it not being a Technics is not the end of the world, it has foam inside the tonearm to help with damping direct acoustic vibration of the cartridge and tonearm, as well as stylus roaring issues, which is most obvious to the ear if you reverse the first downbeat to the silence before it. Technics weren't the worst on that, an honor I believe rests with Numark, though their arms are substantially lower-mass (great for hi-fi and audiophile styli) and improved for scratching. The foam should help the inferior Hanpin arm, though the bearings are still lower grade.


I had the Tascam. It wasn't scratchable. Not in the practical sense.
nyfl2008 4:16 AM - 2 August, 2016
Superior info DJ Torchmusic. i have had the same experience as yourself. I also have had the the new Denon TT's on my bench opened up. Its a masterpiece!!!! I cant even begin just go buy one. Its like a Technics so improved but advanced with super highend hardware.
nyfl2008 4:18 AM - 2 August, 2016
I know alot of people may not agree but the Reloop 7000 and 8000 and really impressive as the Denons are as well
DJ BroMoney 4:58 AM - 5 August, 2016
Quote:
Superior info DJ Torchmusic. i have had the same experience as yourself. I also have had the the new Denon TT's on my bench opened up. Its a masterpiece!!!! I cant even begin just go buy one. Its like a Technics so improved but advanced with super highend hardware.


Would love for you to elaborate on your claim that the Denons are a masterpiece.
Mr. Goodkat 10:13 PM - 5 August, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Did he say "japs" in 2016? Wow.


he also called them "nips."

:-\


Did this dude fight in WW2? lol

I can't believe I just read that.


exactly what i was thinking, sounding like someone grandpa lol
Gio Alex 3:07 PM - 15 August, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Did he say "japs" in 2016? Wow.


he also called them "nips."

:-\


Did this dude fight in WW2? lol

I can't believe I just read that.


exactly what i was thinking, sounding like someone grandpa lol


LMAO kinda makes you question his upbringing
Nuzz1 2:21 AM - 14 September, 2016
What are you guys thoughts on the Gemini hybrid tables that came out years ago, seem to that in theory it was the perfect solution to bringing together all the diff music mediums , except that it had the name Gemini on it, anybody ever use them? What are your opinions on them
nyfl2008 3:09 AM - 14 September, 2016
They were ok nothing exciting but there market is for the dj that cant afford or wont pay for good equipment
Nuzz1 8:55 AM - 14 September, 2016
Thanks for the input , sounds like pioneer is not much diff but they started out with the name pioneer. My buddy has Denon CDJ and loves them and I have the DNX120 and for the cost you get a lot of bang for the buck, to be fair if you look up the history of Gemini they say straight up they are made for the budget DJ straight up , they know there market, it was just surprising to see that kind of product that was so ahead of its time with their name one it. I own to first gen pt 1000 decks and for the bedroom they are great, heavy as crap but tap on them and boom boom boom, so I'm sure it's just bricks inside and tone arm is crap, will never float when trying to adjust counterweight but pitch is dead on, but I knew this going into it. Sounds like Stanton has the best of all worlds when it comes to price, function and endurance
Djkom 9:19 AM - 14 September, 2016
Quote:
What are you guys thoughts on the Gemini hybrid tables that came out years ago, seem to that in theory it was the perfect solution to bringing together all the diff music mediums , except that it had the name Gemini on it, anybody ever use them? What are your opinions on them


The Numark X2 (hybrid vinyl/cs) was way better ! Numark was for me the compagny who's made the most innovative products during the 2000s ... but the quality and reputation did not follow..
Nuzz1 9:36 AM - 14 September, 2016
Sigh seems the consumer is always doomed by cheap Chinese semiconductors , it all part of planned obsolescence , but come on it should at least last a couple years past warranty!
DJ Marv the Maverick 12:57 PM - 14 September, 2016
When is the TT coming out? It's been many moons?
Quote:
Superior info DJ Torchmusic. i have had the same experience as yourself. I also have had the the new Denon TT's on my bench opened up. Its a masterpiece!!!! I cant even begin just go buy one. Its like a Technics so improved but advanced with super highend hardware.


Is It out yet?
DJ Marv the Maverick 12:59 PM - 14 September, 2016
Just saw a shipping date of January 2017. Come on Denon it's just a turntable 😕
DJ Marv the Maverick 12:59 PM - 14 September, 2016
That's like a whole year between announcement and shipping.
Reticuli 1:01 PM - 23 October, 2016
Quote:

I had the Tascam. It wasn't scratchable. Not in the practical sense.


It was scratch-able in the literal sense.

Quote:
Superior info, Reticuli (corrected). I have had the same experience as yourself. I also have had the the new Denon TT's on my bench opened up. Its a masterpiece!!!! I cant even begin just go buy one. Its like a Technics so improved but advanced with super highend hardware.


Wasn't it you who originally opened it up and said there were some oversights or am I thinking of someone else? Did Denon take your criticisms to heart and improve the design already?
nyfl2008 10:59 PM - 3 November, 2016
They are doing some rebuilding on them.
Direktion 11:02 PM - 3 November, 2016
DJTorchmusic 6:09 AM - 7 November, 2016
I think I should clear some things up about Denon because there seems to be a misunderstanding about Denon's quality. I have to first start, back in the day in the 80's and early 90's. Denon for home audiophile sound was on top. You would have to go super exotic and expensive to beat them and even then they'd put up a good fight in that arena as well. What was even more startling was they were the KING of DJ mixers back then. The Pioneer DJM wasn't released yet and most of Denon's offerings were in 19" rack mount. They also made excellent rack mount CD Players too. Pioneer's early offerings were in a rack mount as well. When Pioneer started releasing Mixers, Denons were still known to sound better though they were competitive. This is where Denon went wrong... They kept making rack mount gear. Here comes the mid 90's. and Pioneer releases a table top CDJ (I think it was the 500G). IT SUCKED! I'd compare it to a cheap Gemeni table top of today, if that. Then, Pioneer came out of nowhere with the CDJ 1000. Denon didn't reply to this until a few years ago.

Today's Denon Mixers are on par with Pioneer when it comes to sound quality. In fact, they might have an edge.

I guess what I'm saying is if you know Denon like I know Denon, you're problem not surprised they released a high end TT. Problem is, they're ALWAYS one step behind Pioneer when they release something.. However, I do like their offering better than the Pioneer TT offering.
Direktion 6:15 AM - 7 November, 2016
@DJTorchmusic - the one thing you've omitted is that Denon DJ is now owned by inMusic. This current resurgence of the Denon brand is because there's a cashed up and resourceful company now behind the scene. MCX8000, DS1, MC7000, VL12, Engine V2 and more (a CDJ/media player judging by the latest video) are all from the new inMusic owned Denon. inMusic also own Numark, who have certainly release a few "industry firsts" (HDX, CDX, digital mixers, digital decks etc) and are perhaps a little more "forward thinking" than the Denon of old.

Whilst I'm biased, I'm really excited to see what the future holds for Denon. Pioneer has had a dominance in this sector of the market for too long.
DJTorchmusic 6:30 AM - 7 November, 2016
Quote:
@DJTorchmusic - the one thing you've omitted is that Denon DJ is now owned by inMusic. This current resurgence of the Denon brand is because there's a cashed up and resourceful company now behind the scene. MCX8000, DS1, MC7000, VL12, Engine V2 and more (a CDJ/media player judging by the latest video) are all from the new inMusic owned Denon. inMusic also own Numark, who have certainly release a few "industry firsts" (HDX, CDX, digital mixers, digital decks etc) and are perhaps a little more "forward thinking" than the Denon of old.

Whilst I'm biased, I'm really excited to see what the future holds for Denon. Pioneer has had a dominance in this sector of the market for too long.


I couldn't agree more. I believe their most promising item of late is the SC3900. If it was built like a miniature VL12 (10" platter) I'd buy it. I have the V7s now but find them a little too small. You mentioned the HDX/CDX. I had both and I thought they were an excellent idea. They just needed to be built a little better and these days they don't even need to put a CD slot on them. Actually no player needs a CD slot. That's just too "90's". Media slot sounds cool though.
Direktion 6:32 AM - 7 November, 2016
I'm with you, mate. All good gear.
nomorefire80 4:24 PM - 18 November, 2016
hu. I read all the posts. Very helpful. I dont have Denon DJ, but Pioneer DJ. From Denon I have Soundbox. I love these very much. After reading I think I can also buy a Denon DJ. By me there is a shop for dj equipment www.envirel.de . I can go around there
DJHexum 5:33 AM - 10 January, 2017
I own 4 Technics and the new Pioneer PLX-1000. I have also owned/used Vestax, Reloop, and Numark turntables. Technics are not coming back (atleast anytime soon) and repairing them is getting more and more pricey by the day. Very interested in testing out this new Denon turntable. For all of you that say that every new turntable coming out is just a "cheaply made copy"...my guess is that many have never tried them out. I really like the Pioneer PLX-1000. It has detachable RCA's/power cord, internally grounded, 8/16/50 pitch shifts, very well built (noticeably heavier than a Tech), and to me feels as good if not better than a Tech...and many other experts/DJs feel the same. If you use Techs and DJ frequently, you will have to replace your RCAs at times (if you can find a repair shop its not cheap) and tone arm replacement runs around $300. The PLX allows you to attach higher quality RCAs and replacing those is a simple trip to Guitar Center. This new Denon has the same feature.

Finally, I also own a Denon sc3900 digital turntable and that rocks as well! So I don't listen to those trashing them.
Direktion 5:38 AM - 10 January, 2017
@ DJHexum:

Pioneer PLX-1000 is indeed a Hanpin clone (aka "super-OEM"), with a few custom alterations by Pioneer. Essentially the bones of it is the same turntable as Stanton, Reloop, Numark, *insert brand here*.

Denon DJ VL12 is the first turntable since Technics that is not super-OEM, and has been designed from the ground up. Which is the very reason it has been delayed, delayed and delayed - as this takes time. It's also the reason it is a little more expensive that super-OEM turntables.

BTW: Technics is back. They announced their ridiculous $4k turntable a year ago, and just announced a $2k version at CES show last week - although they claim that they are targeting audiophiles and not DJ's.
DJHexum 5:53 AM - 10 January, 2017
I have tried other Hanpins and the Pioneer performs way better. It may use some of the same technology as the others, but as you noted it does contain custom alterations as well as upgrades. Like I said, I like it and also own 4 other Techs (MK2's and MK5's).

Yes I meant Technics is not coming back anytime soon for the masses who cannot afford spending thousands on a "limited edition" turntable. What an absolute fail from Panasonic. They could have gotten back in good graces with the DJ community had they returned with a model in the $500-750 range. My guess is only Q-Bert, Mixmaster Mike, Jazzy Jeff, and the likes were able to get there hands on those.
Direktion 5:58 AM - 10 January, 2017
Quote:
I have tried other Hanpins and the Pioneer performs way better. It may use some of the same technology as the others, but as you noted it does contain custom alterations as well as upgrades. Like I said, I like it and also own 4 other Techs (MK2's and MK5's).


One of the main issues a lot of people have with the PLX is their feedback and lack of motor isolation - apparently they can be noisy when in noisy or unstable environments. I honestly don't know, I've only ever played on Technics, Vestax and Numark.
dj_soo 8:19 AM - 10 January, 2017
I have heard that the PLX have some sort of unique drift compensation that makes slowing the platter weird as it automatically jumps back to speed making it difficult to mix if you're used to using the platter to nudge back and forth. Anyone with these tables confirm? Never tried them myself.
dj_soo 8:22 AM - 10 January, 2017
The isolation feet on the new turntable intrigues me.

Wonder if it utilizes similar design as the isnone turntable feet: www.isonoe.com
kip 9:51 AM - 10 January, 2017
Quote:
If you use Techs and DJ frequently, you will have to replace your RCAs at times (if you can find a repair shop its not cheap) and tone arm replacement runs around $300.

There are several rca mods for Technics out there so not an issue if you want it.
Wait till you have to replace the plx tonearm, won't be thrilled. The entire armbase has to be swapped, not only the wand as with Technics. Costs $270 + installation. Not to mention it can be wobbly right out of the box.
kip 9:52 AM - 10 January, 2017
Quote:
I have heard that the PLX have some sort of unique drift compensation that makes slowing the platter weird as it automatically jumps back to speed making it difficult to mix if you're used to using the platter to nudge back and forth.

Please tell more about this or point to a link, I think I might have something to say.
dj_soo 10:08 AM - 10 January, 2017
first I heard about it was from Vekked

www.reddit.com
kip 10:52 AM - 10 January, 2017
Doesn't Technics have such thing, "fighting the mix"? Maybe they wanted to copy it in total, unlike with the other OEMs which seem to not have it. There's a mod on the Technics to disable this.
dj_soo 10:54 AM - 10 January, 2017
never experienced anything like it on my 17 years of playing on techs...
kip 11:03 AM - 10 January, 2017
But you also don't know what exactly is happening with the plx, no? What are they reffering to?
dj_soo 11:17 AM - 10 January, 2017
no idea - that's why I'm asking people who have experience with the turntable.

But I'm assuming it doesn't happen on techs since he brought it up as an issue specific to the PLX.

I'm also assuming a DMC world champ is going to know a little bit about turntables.
kip 11:38 AM - 10 January, 2017
Just thinking out loud. Could be the higher torque exaggerates the systems attempt to correct the speed, which is not so pronounced with Technics due to lower torque? Other oems, as mentioned, maybe don't have this correction feature, so no problem there despite the same high torque. Somewhere was mentioned that oems are easier to mix on due to this.
dj_soo 12:09 PM - 10 January, 2017
In that thread, he stated that other super oems don't have that same issue
DJ BroMoney 12:14 PM - 10 January, 2017
Really can't wait to see the W&F specs and a tear down of this. I'm hoping street is a bit less then the $900 quoted but time will tell.
Mr Wilks 12:19 PM - 10 January, 2017
Quote:
never experienced anything like it on my 17 years of playing on techs...


I think it's on the MK3G onwards.

I know my ones behave a little different to the MK2 models.

Something to combat drift and keep it steady but can be a pain when beat mixing.
kip 1:14 PM - 10 January, 2017
Quote:
In that thread, he stated that other super oems don't have that same issue

That's why I say the plx was maybe copying that feature from 1200, unlike the rest of oems, in order to make it as close as possible, but failed in a way.

Quote:
I think it's on the MK3G onwards.

No, the mod to avoid this is from MK2.
kip 1:15 PM - 10 January, 2017
But yeah reports of M5G feel different are present.
DJHexum 6:04 PM - 10 January, 2017
The PLX platter is not "exactly" the same as Techs, but damn close. And lets be sure we are talking about the more expensive model PLX-1000 instead of the newer released cheaper version PLX-500 which I have not tried. Slowing it down is not the same feel as Techs, but again close and I have never experienced it try to jump back up in speed (if I understand correctly).
nyfl2008 9:24 PM - 10 January, 2017
I have to say The Reloop 7000's are the best feel as to the the Techs 1200 & M5G. You guys should really check them out. I'm an old skool DJ from the 80's with Techs TT's right up to the M5G. I also sell all the above and service all the above.
nyfl2008 9:28 PM - 10 January, 2017
Nowadays The Super Oem TT's are actually all pretty good. There are small differences but the real thing is the tone arm. Techs use there own tone arm which makes the difference. secondly is the platter drive system how accurate is it keeping up to speed.
kip 9:33 PM - 10 January, 2017
Quote:
Reloop 7000

Is the pitch slider stiff as on Technics or looser?
nyfl2008 9:43 PM - 10 January, 2017
About the same but pitch fader is digital and is the most accurate on the market. Its even midi programmable. I have been testing the RP 7000 and 8000 for 2 years truly beating them up. Running to pitch Fater back-and-forth constantly to see if it where is it down or if it makes it any looser or if it loses its accuracy and still performs pretty much identically as if it was brand-new. The bearings in the turntable platter also really sturdy well-made sealed bearings they never need oil. I mean as of now you really can't go wrong with a set of the Reloops there great turntables.
nyfl2008 9:46 PM - 10 January, 2017
It's hard for everyone to change their brand from the legendary Techs to something other. This is the real truth and it was very hard for me to even buy other good brand turn tables that have recently hit the market in the past few years. We are all dedicated to the one brand Technics this has caused many of the doubts that we all speak about upon all the new brand turntables. You just got to try the new ones keep the old ones at heart
kip 10:20 PM - 10 January, 2017
Used them in a club? Feedback issues?
Direktion 10:22 PM - 10 January, 2017
what are we talking about again? ;)
Gio Alex 10:48 PM - 10 January, 2017
Quote:
what are we talking about again? ;)


LMAO... how I feel about every thread
nyfl2008 10:50 PM - 10 January, 2017
Yes , in clubs only as my company we set up large stage events and we install prosound systems in new and old clubs. At first the dj's are a little concerned but after there set they end up telling me they loved them. Its a German product hard to go wrong those Germans just know how to build. Solid
dj_soo 6:41 AM - 11 January, 2017
I'm perfectly fine with using Super OEMs myself. I just never tried the PLX 1000s and when someone like Vekked mentions an issue specific to them, you tend to pay attention...
DJ Quartz 6:42 PM - 11 January, 2017
Quote:
I'm perfectly fine with using Super OEMs myself. I just never tried the PLX 1000s and when someone like Vekked mentions an issue specific to them, you tend to pay attention...


I need a set at home to practice routines on to verify. I was speaking with him and he was saying the motor could overshoot sometimes.

I use them at the club and haven't experienced that myself.

Maybe it was an issue in the early batches.

My go to turntables are the ST-150's, PLX-1000's and Technics1200M5G's.

I haven't got my hands on the RP7000's but I'm sure it performs just as well.

For the Denon's it's a situation where I have to get my hands on a pair and beat on them to know.

Since they have really gone off the cuff, they have to prove themselves.

The DJ 151's were very nice decks but didn't work well on the road.
Asu 5:50 AM - 14 January, 2017
Quote:
Just thinking out loud. Could be the higher torque exaggerates the systems attempt to correct the speed, which is not so pronounced with Technics due to lower torque?


This is why the Denon VL12 will be better than the PLX with adjustable torque between 3.5 to a peak of 5.0...can't wait to try it out
J.J. 6:19 AM - 17 January, 2017
I need a straight arm version with the pitch relocated for vertical and SC5000 Prime 8 PAD buttons on the bottom like the Reloop RP-8000 STRAIGHT.
Rebelguy 1:10 AM - 18 January, 2017
Them why not just buy the Reloop?
Mr. Goodkat 1:26 AM - 18 January, 2017
Quote:
Them why not just buy the Reloop?
J.J. 5:26 PM - 18 January, 2017
Quote:
Them why not just buy the Reloop?

I don't want a Hanpin Super OEM. I would also like the pitch vertical for battle style. Kind of like the Numark TTX-USB. I also dig the Denon DJ VL12 Prime 2 option low and high 5kgf/cm torque and platter edge lighting.

I'm interested if The Bright Pixel will take apart the VL12 Prime and review it.
kip 8:30 PM - 18 January, 2017
Reloop has adjustable torque.
dj_soo 9:54 PM - 18 January, 2017
Reloop torque adjust sucks. You cant independently adjust the start and stop time - only.both together.

So if you want an instant start you need an instant stop whereas if you want that vinyl stop sound when you hit the power button, you need to accept that the startup will be slower.
DJ Marv the Maverick 11:02 PM - 18 January, 2017
You can adjust Stanton ST150 Start and Stop independently.

My start is set to instant, Stop is 1/4 of the way turnt.

Its amazing how hype and tension can increase interest in a product.

Still a nice looking deck though, hopefully i get to see it in the wild to play with, i wont be breaking my piggy bank to buy one....I hope

RGAS in remission
goldarn 12:50 AM - 19 January, 2017
Quote:
I have heard that the PLX have some sort of unique drift compensation that makes slowing the platter weird as it automatically jumps back to speed making it difficult to mix if you're used to using the platter to nudge back and forth. Anyone with these tables confirm? Never tried them myself.


that sounds like a really evil trick to pull on a turntablist.
Mr Wilks 1:12 AM - 19 January, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
I have heard that the PLX have some sort of unique drift compensation that makes slowing the platter weird as it automatically jumps back to speed making it difficult to mix if you're used to using the platter to nudge back and forth. Anyone with these tables confirm? Never tried them myself.


that sounds like a really evil trick to pull on a turntablist.


Or a blending beat mixer!

A turntablist will be too busy scratching haha!
kip 1:17 AM - 19 January, 2017
Quote:
Reloop torque adjust sucks. You cant independently adjust the start and stop time - only.both together.

So if you want an instant start you need an instant stop whereas if you want that vinyl stop sound when you hit the power button, you need to accept that the startup will be slower.

Torque is different thing from start/stop time.
J.J. 1:56 AM - 19 January, 2017
Quote:
You cant independently adjust the start and stop time - only.both together.

So if you want an instant start you need an instant stop whereas if you want that vinyl stop sound when you hit the power button, you need to accept that the startup will be slower.

I figured they would have updated this through firmware. THIS IS THE REASON I DIDN'T PURCHASE THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

So if you want Instant Start and a slower Technics stop, you can't do it? DUMB. It's a huge design flaw.
DJ GaFFle 12:40 PM - 21 January, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Did he say "japs" in 2016? Wow.


he also called them "nips."

:-\


Did this dude fight in WW2? lol

I can't believe I just read that.

That's that Oval Office trickle-down effect.
Luke Annett 7:16 PM - 6 February, 2017
Specs have been posted:

denondj.com

Motor:
Drive: Quartz direct-drive
Starting Torque: 5 kgf/cm (instant); 3.4 kgf/cm (stable)
Starting Time: < 0.4 seconds
Braking System: Electronic
Platter:
Material: Aluminum die-cast
Diameter: 13.1” / 332 mm
Weight: 4.9 lbs. / 2.2 g
Tonearm:
Effective Length: 9.4” / 238 mm
Overhang: 1.0” / 25 mm
Offset Angle: 20.5°
Speeds:
RPM: 33⅓, 45
Wow & Flutter: < 0.15%

This, to me, is a concern. Should I be concerned? That seems quite a lot of wow & flutter, how would you go mixing with that sort of variation?
Gio Alex 7:22 PM - 6 February, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Did he say "japs" in 2016? Wow.


he also called them "nips."

:-\


Did this dude fight in WW2? lol

I can't believe I just read that.

That's that Oval Office trickle-down effect.


LMAO
blackavenger 8:49 PM - 6 February, 2017
Quote:
Wow & Flutter: < 0.15%


That's insane! That's gotta' be a typo.
If not, screw these decks.
kip 10:03 PM - 6 February, 2017
A typo again? (plx1000, remember?) What's the correct figure? 0.015? Not a single chance.

At least they are honest.
dj_soo 3:40 AM - 7 February, 2017
Somehow doubt it weighs 4.9 lbs either so could be a typo...
d:raf 4:13 AM - 7 February, 2017
Quote:
Somehow doubt it weighs 4.9 lbs either so could be a typo...


That's just the -platter- weight.
Mr Wilks 10:15 AM - 7 February, 2017
I'm surprised the power switch isn't recessed like the later SL's.

They still look a great deck though.
Reticuli 7:20 PM - 21 February, 2017
The VL12 was designed as an audiophile DJ deck. Its lack of strait arm and MIDI capabilities are consistent with this.
Rebelguy 7:27 PM - 21 February, 2017
Quote:
The VL12 was designed as an audiophile DJ deck. Its lack of strait arm and MIDI capabilities are consistent with this.


Most of the dj decks don't have midi and not everyone likes straight arm decks.
Gio Alex 7:32 PM - 21 February, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
The VL12 was designed as an audiophile DJ deck. Its lack of strait arm and MIDI capabilities are consistent with this.


Most of the dj decks don't have midi and not everyone likes straight arm decks.


Basically.
Mr. Goodkat 7:41 PM - 21 February, 2017
would any audiophile deck have a motor at this point?
Reticuli 7:46 PM - 21 February, 2017
Most DJ decks are not designed from the ground up to be an audiophile deck, too. Asking for MIDI drum buttons and a strait arm would be defeating that purpose. Personally, I hope Numark keeps the TTX line alive (can't tell if it is or not), as I think it's pretty unique and certainly fills a niche.
Reticuli 7:48 PM - 21 February, 2017
Quote:
would any audiophile deck have a motor at this point?


The first direct drives were audiophile decks, because with a linear feedback system they could actually achieve better speed stability, not to mention you didn't need to deal with belts wearing out. Denon and Technics, among others, were earlier adopters of this technique. The Super OEM is also apparently a German drive design licensed to Hanpin, rather than being an original Taiwanese design.
kip 9:49 AM - 22 February, 2017
Quote:
The VL12 was designed as an audiophile DJ deck.

Huh? With such looks and 0.15% W&F it's anything but audiophile.

Quote:
The Super OEM is also apparently a German drive design licensed to Hanpin, rather than being an original Taiwanese design.

Where this info comes from?
Reticuli 6:02 PM - 22 February, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
The VL12 was designed as an audiophile DJ deck.

Huh? With such looks and 0.15% W&F it's anything but audiophile.

Quote:
The Super OEM is also apparently a German drive design licensed to Hanpin, rather than being an original Taiwanese design.

Where this info comes from?


Less than 0.15% W&F.

As per the other point, it's in this thread.

Hanpins don't even share the same timing and speed system. Denon also had their own designs way back. There are many ways of doing it. The Technics W&F spec, btw, is at 0% pitch, and many units are mis-calibrated (common issue with them) or modded for even lower torque to seem like the 1100 and 1200mk1 disco tables... to say nothing of the limited pitch range.

These are all usable decks, but the Technics issues are only made up for with their fat circuit traces and sheer number of people who (claim they) can fix them. But do you really want yours serviced by some amateur who couldn't also service the others? To each his own.

Personally, I think the most exciting part of the vl12 is the isolation system. That's arguably the next most important thing after cart setup, etc. To have it conveniently built-in without dealing with isonoe feet, rubber bands and ash trays, or tennis balls is nice.
kip 5:28 PM - 23 February, 2017
Quote:
Less than 0.15% W&F.

Still means close to it, not below 0.1. In the original era (70's-80's) no decent table had wf higher than 0.1, which was borderline value.

Quote:
As per the other point, it's in this thread.

You mean this?
Quote:
Omg . Pioneer is nothing but a copy of everyone else except there cdj's. I'm a pioneer dealer. They steal all the hard work from other products and force them to the market. It's like buying a fake Rolex or buying a Lexus and thinking its a BMW yeah right. Plx turntables were never anything special Stanton or Reloop hold the market down. Hanpins are a legendary build from Germany. Even technics copied them as the japs (nips) always do that's all they know how to do is make fakes or copies. Read up on your equipment. I service all the different brands and pioneer lacks a lot in build quality except for cdj's. Dvs is here to stay if your using a controller that's cause your not from the turntable time. Real vinyl is being sold everywhere again. Controllers are good for a bbq but real dj's use turntables.



Quote:
The Technics W&F spec, btw, is at 0% pitch

Where is this info coming from? Technics quartz lock is on all the time at any pitch value, so it shouldn't make difference for the wf.

Quote:
Hanpins don't even share the same timing and speed system. Denon also had their own designs way back.

If this should tell Denon is not Hanpin - that's correct, it's Yahorng, another Chinese oem manufacturer.
DJ Quartz 8:00 AM - 24 February, 2017
Looked up their website, they have a model that reminds me of the old Gemini turntables.
DJ Dub Cowboy 9:06 PM - 27 February, 2017
^^^ This VL12 is clearly related to the old Gemini PT-2000

so basically just more of the same bread with different jelly
Reticuli 10:46 PM - 27 February, 2017
I don't have any problem with Hanpin or Yahorgn. I'd take evaluate each of their products on their own merits. I think the latest Hanpin players are for DJs who use their ears than most of the automated and overpriced stuff other companies are making.
kip 12:42 PM - 2 March, 2017
Quote:
I think the latest Hanpin players are for DJs who use their ears than most of the automated and overpriced stuff other companies are making.

Actually, Hanpin and Yahorng are getting away with the known issues because these are blurred with automation (relative mode, anti drift...).
DJ Dub Cowboy 3:32 PM - 2 March, 2017
Technics makes a turntable for playing records.

The others make turntables for those who can't afford Technics.

That's how it was... that's how it is again.
kip 4:26 PM - 2 March, 2017
^Well said.
Reticuli 6:52 PM - 2 March, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
I think the latest Hanpin players are for DJs who use their ears than most of the automated and overpriced stuff other companies are making.

Actually, Hanpin and Yahorng are getting away with the known issues because these are blurred with automation (relative mode, anti drift...).


I meant the media players, but I don't think you are correct with the Hanpin turntables.
HighTopFade 12:40 AM - 3 March, 2017
Nice looking deck. Must be pretty solid being $200 bucks more than the PLX1000.
Decidan 5:50 PM - 4 April, 2017
So it looks like Denon did make a type error on their webpage. The wow & flutter has been amended to 0.05%. This I am very happy about
Cal Cal 23 12:39 AM - 27 April, 2017
So when is this turntable coming out???
Decidan 7:24 AM - 27 April, 2017
Mid May is now the current estimate
DJTorchmusic 7:48 PM - 4 May, 2017
I just saw one site selling the VL12... 899.00... GTFOH. Maybe It's because I'm not and never have been that picky, but that's just too freaking much. They are beautiful pieces but there's nothing they do that makes them stand apart from any other TTs.
slimmjimm 8:29 PM - 4 May, 2017
I may still try it out, but I'm really not impressed by by the new price point. I was in for 699, maybe.
DJTorchmusic 9:12 PM - 4 May, 2017
Quote:
I may still try it out, but I'm really not impressed by by the new price point. I was in for 699, maybe.


I couldn't agree more. To justify that price point it needs to do something "special". It doesn't need to have a bunch of buttons or anything but for me, it would need to track twice as good as anything else. I mean like you'd have to work hard to get it to skip. The dampening is "sort of" special but most TTs these days are fine in that category.
Laz219 12:57 AM - 5 May, 2017
Yeah, the price kind of threw me off. Especially when I could have the reloop RP8000s for $200 less (AUD)
I
DJ Dub Cowboy 2:38 PM - 5 May, 2017
damn, they taxin' that rebadged XL-500
AKIEM 11:25 PM - 5 May, 2017
$200 for the under plater light trick. smh.

Only OEM worth buying is the RP-8000, if you want the midi buttons.
4mydawgz 11:52 AM - 10 May, 2017
I think I'm going to pick up a couple of these.
Discobee 8:35 PM - 11 May, 2017
Mine just arrived yesterday. Paid $1600 for two. I like'm. It looks nice, it feels solid, high torque. Already putting my Reloop RP7000 up for sale...might even sell off a pair of Technics too. It's pricey, but so are CDJs, mixers, and speakers.
Discobee 12:31 AM - 12 May, 2017
If you own Reloop 7000 or 8000, or Technics MK5 or M5G, then paying so much for these Denons may not make sense financially...but if you want to upgrade from some older predecessor dj turntables, then these might be a suitable option for you. I bought'em because I like that it's not a Hanpin Super OEM....so it's really a matter of preference: Technics made in Japan, Hanpin made in China, or these ones made in Taiwan.
lumas13 11:31 AM - 12 May, 2017
Pics please...
Discobee 5:31 PM - 12 May, 2017
Ok here are some pics:
s90.photobucket.com
Discobee 5:33 PM - 12 May, 2017
I should also let you guys know that a Technics 1200 dustcover (unhinged type) will sit perfectly on this turntable....no need to buy any Decksaver for it.
lumas13 12:19 AM - 13 May, 2017
How you like it? I like those SC35's as well
Discobee 1:05 AM - 13 May, 2017
So far so good....already sold off my Reloops within 24hrs of receiving the Denons...lol
DJ Dynamight 5:40 PM - 15 May, 2017
Quote:
Ok here are some pics:
s90.photobucket.com

Nice!!
dj_soo 7:32 PM - 15 May, 2017
so how do they feel? Anything particularly stand out or just feels like a solid turntable?
Noambi 8:03 AM - 17 May, 2017
How good is tonearm for scratching, not a single video on youtube. Compared to your reloop are they much better? I need new turntables but i dont know if denon is worth the extra 300eur over the reloop rp 7000.
Discobee 7:40 PM - 17 May, 2017
Ok so after using it for a few days (short periods, not gigging or anything hours long) with both regular vinyl record listening, and with Scratch Live + control record...here are some critique of the VL12...and this is for just how I play/DJ...may or may not be relevant to others...

1. Very well thought out turntable with a hefty and rubberized (beneath) platter.

2. Tonearm is metal construction and it tracks very well.

3. Torque is plenty in both LO & HI settings...when used with a proper "DJ" slipmat, the throwing of the vinyl is swift, and the pullback feels good too, with absolutely no slowdown in resistance...I don't forsee any scratch DJ's having a negative experience with this turntable.

4. When using with SSL, the Quartz lock at 0% does fluctuate +/- 0.1% on one deck and +/- 0.2% on the second deck, with my computer. But the pitch slider assembly feels very tight and smooth.

5. The ground wire is integrated with the RCA cables, so it would be difficult to ground it to the mixer's grounding post if you're using a SSL box, but then all you have to do is just ground it to the box so it's not really an issue there.

6. The color LED ring or halo is what makes the VL12 stand out from other brands...it's gimmicky but that is what's different and gives it the "cool" factor (you can always turn the LED completely off, but then what's the point).

7. Has a 45rpm adapter space, so for those that use Dicers, this is a good thing.

8. The visible screws on the top surface is slightly unattractive but certainly not a deal breaker.

9. Compared to the Reloop RP7000, is it worth the price difference? Maybe, maybe not...it depends on your preference. Do you want a lighter weight turntable? Does the platter assembly matter to you? Do you need adjustable start/braking? Do you need 2 start/stop buttons because of battle style? Do you need Reverse function?

10. Compared to the Technics 1200...if I had some old MK2 or M3D models, I would trade up for a pair of Denons...if I had some MK5 or M5G models, maybe not. Yes I know all about the "I've own my Techs for 20+ years and it's still a workhorse" and all that jazz....but at some point in your life, even the trusty ole daily driver will need to be traded in for a new car....but to each his/her own. Not trying to change any Technics diehard's minds; heck, I still own a pair of M5G myself.

Reliability of it remains to be seen as this is Denon's first new turntable in awhile and is purportedly a Taiwanese Yarhong super OEM too. But overall, my opinion is that the Denon VL12 is a turntable that has its place in the current DJ market. With its premium quality feel to it, I do believe it is a better turntable to purchase than Reloop RP7000, Numark TTX-USB, Stanton ST-150, or Audio Technica LP1240, if you are willing to spend the money for it.
Discobee 7:46 PM - 17 May, 2017
^^Oh and I forgot to add the Pioneer PLX1000 to that list too! Lol
Noambi 6:30 AM - 18 May, 2017
Discobee thank you! :)
DJTorchmusic 10:05 PM - 26 May, 2017
Quote:
Yeah, the price kind of threw me off. Especially when I could have the reloop RP8000s for $200 less (AUD)
I


I love those decks
DJTorchmusic 10:09 PM - 26 May, 2017
Quote:
^^Oh and I forgot to add the Pioneer PLX1000 to that list too! Lol


Thanks Discobee, great review. If the price drops, I'd consider it but unless you did not see any improvement over other decks like MUCH better tracking, I'll pass. It's a beautiful deck though.
Discobee 2:07 AM - 27 May, 2017
^^Ya, there isn't any "great improvement" or some technological advancement that will blow all other brands out the water. If you have a good set of (not too old) Technics, or Reloop 7000 or 8000 or if you already love your Pioneer PLX1000, then there is really no need to buy the Denons.

But if you like to always try different gear, or if your old set of Technics are too janky with tonearm issues, bearings issues, humming soundx or if it's just time to upgrade to a new set of something something...then yes, go take a look at these VL12s.
Discobee 2:11 AM - 27 May, 2017
I bought a pair 'cuz I like to try different brands, and I've had great return of investment from my Denon SC3900 media player CDJs (which by the way are still kickass with its motorized platters), and so I don't have any regrets about selling my Reloop 7000 for these Denons because I consider it an upgrade personally.
Vin Aeoua 6:45 AM - 28 May, 2017
Quote:
www.digitaldjtips.com

Looks like it's not Super OEM. Be interesting to see how this performs...


Dude, the guy on the first answer was so irritating that I subscribed only to be sharing with people reading this topic you what I found.

This video shows a man falling in love with his VL12:

Watchwww.youtube.com
Will08272 3:23 PM - 28 May, 2017
I know the thread is about the V12, but i feel a follow up to the 3900 may not happen, i have some regret now in having sold mine. It seems a better investment for a company to make a new turntable than a deck with a platter.
J.J. 12:09 AM - 29 May, 2017
Quote:
I know the thread is about the V12, but i feel a follow up to the 3900 may not happen, i have some regret now in having sold mine. It seems a better investment for a company to make a new turntable than a deck with a platter.


Have faith Will.
dj_soo 5:16 AM - 30 May, 2017
an SC5000 Prime with spinning platters would be amazing.
Niro 5:23 AM - 30 May, 2017
Quote:
an SC5000 Prime with spinning platters would be amazing.

Looks like DJ Soo is in the know.
dj_soo 7:03 AM - 30 May, 2017
more wishful thinking
Niro 3:47 PM - 30 May, 2017
So after having the V12's for the weekend, I'm sold. A few things I would have liked done better, but overall good to go.
dj_soo 10:46 PM - 30 May, 2017
what about them sold you the most?
DJ Dub Cowboy 11:39 PM - 30 May, 2017
same question here.

fancy looks is an acceptable answer. However I am convinced this is a re-worked Gemini XL-500II since it comes from the same factory and has the same tonearm base. Not that that was such a horrible turntable, just not nearly on the level of Technics as far as build quality.
kip 12:32 AM - 31 May, 2017
^Same here. Don't understand what justifies the higher than Hanpin OEM price.
DJ Dub Cowboy 10:59 AM - 31 May, 2017
I think Denon is just trying real hard to break into the "overpriced plastic garbage/change your rider" territory.
Niro 3:38 AM - 2 June, 2017
Man, just realized how much I don't come here anymore. :(

DiscoBee outlined most of the Pros, so I won't repeat them and just add to it. First the side story. I did a quick demo, review at AGI. I was using Custom Vinyl (sticker in the back) and I'm assuming they were the new pressing because they were heavy and had a little cupping. So my first experience was so so, but I also understood some of the reasoning.

I finally cracked open the box after a few days of them sitting in the garage, sorry no unboxing video (not sure the reasoning for it, but that's me.) Even thou they are only a pound heavier than the Technics, they felt a lot heavier. Putting them together was simple, just be careful of the 2 indent slots in the spindle area. I think it's suppose to help with platter wobble.

After playing with them at Home and at a gig, they were as solid as a 1200 for the most part. With higher torque, wow and flutter was the same, pitch was smooth and the Halo light was pretty cool.

Cons, the tonearm is IMO much better quality than the Reloops and a little better than the PLX's, but not as solid as a 1200. They should have put and LED light or let the light from the platter leak through to the Pitch fader. It was hard to see in the dark.

IMO, these are a good fun replacement for your 1200's in case you want something new and fun to DJ with. I like that the height is more consistent and stays level, also the semi suction feet help it stay stable on a case or any smooth surface. I think it's built up to par with a 1200, minus the tonearm. If I needed some new turntables, I would definitely pay the extra for these over a reloop or PLX.
Niro 6:29 AM - 2 June, 2017
I forgot to mention what really won me over. It was the platter, mixing with it was a pleasure. It felt very well designed and had a ton of rubber for dampening, more than a 1200.
Discobee 5:54 PM - 3 June, 2017
It's like this fellas......

You're driving your nice, well maintained Lexus sedan that's now about 15 years old...it's paid off, nothing's wrong with it mechanically, it's been a smooth and dependable car all this time.

Then you see the new Infiniti sedan of the same class...sleek, luxurious, beautiful. It has all the same creature comforts as your Lexus, but with a few more modern gadgets. You test drive it...Ooooh it's smooth like the Lexus, handling is tight, new car smell...wow such a nice car.

But it's going to set you back a lot of money...and the Lexus' mileage is getting up there...you'd be perfectly fine with keeping it for a few more years...but a brand new car would be pretty awesome too...will it be as reliable as the Lexus you've owned for over a decade now? Don't know, but Infiniti has put out some nice cars, and all indications are that this new car will be a good investment.

So what should you do? Keep your Lexus or splurge on the newest Infiniti? Keep your Technics or splurge on the newest Denon?

That's what this comparison is like.
Decidan 6:59 PM - 3 June, 2017
Haha, great comparison there Discobee. I'm sold
Mr. Goodkat 8:38 PM - 3 June, 2017
id never go from a lexus to an infinity. nissan just doenst compare to toyota
Discobee 8:44 PM - 3 June, 2017
^^I already knew that was coming when I posted my post.
Mr. Goodkat 9:49 PM - 3 June, 2017
;)
DJ Dub Cowboy 5:43 AM - 4 June, 2017
Compared to the NEW Technics, the Denon isn't even a luxury car. It's more like a Scion.
kip 6:55 PM - 4 June, 2017
Quote:
Compared to the NEW Technics, the Denon isn't even a luxury car. It's more like a Scion.

Not even compared to the old Technics.
Noambi 8:02 PM - 4 June, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
Compared to the NEW Technics, the Denon isn't even a luxury car. It's more like a Scion.

Not even compared to the old Technics.


Hey, here are my thoughts about what you are saying.

If u can get me old technich in perfect condition for 750, i buy it immediately. I dont know where you live and how many technics in perfect condition you can find, but in my country i cant find even one of them in perfect condition. every technics i can find has some problems and they are all asking around 600eur for one. i think they are not worth the asking price compared to denon, or some oem turntable for much less money and u can use them for scratching or mixing just fine.

maybe i'm wrong but if u cant find good technics for fair price what else u can buy that will work great for you as a dj?
Discobee 8:18 PM - 4 June, 2017
Quote:
Compared to the NEW Technics, the Denon isn't even a luxury car. It's more like a Scion.


Just curious Dub Cowboy, and I'm not trying to engage in a debate with you about Technics vs Denon, but have you spun on the VL12's yet? Like not just seeing it at some electronics show, but actually used one for DJ'ing for an short amount of time. Or is your opinion simply based on your assumptions that the VL12 is a OEM turntable or Gemini reincarnation and because it costs so much you don't believe that it's a worthy purchase?
Niro 6:36 AM - 5 June, 2017
I think the new Technics is an amazing piece of equipment. But for DJing I'm not sold, especially with the price tag. It's natured design towards HiFi takes away from the DJ aspects. Everything felt the same as the last release, but the feet didn't feel as sturdy. Great for audiophiles, but :( for djing.
kip 5:32 PM - 5 June, 2017
Quote:
Everything felt the same as the last release, but the feet didn't feel as sturdy.

Feet are supposed to be improved.
Niro 7:34 PM - 5 June, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
Everything felt the same as the last release, but the feet didn't feel as sturdy.

Feet are supposed to be improved.


Yes, but I believe for audiophiles to absorb more vibrations...etc. Not so good for DJ's especially ones that scratch or are really touchy feely.
dj_soo 9:28 PM - 5 June, 2017
Quote:
Compared to the NEW Technics, the Denon isn't even a luxury car. It's more like a Scion.


Wouldn't the new technics be more like a Bentley in this equation?
kip 10:01 PM - 5 June, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Everything felt the same as the last release, but the feet didn't feel as sturdy.

Feet are supposed to be improved.


Yes, but I believe for audiophiles to absorb more vibrations...etc. Not so good for DJ's especially ones that scratch or are really touchy feely.

You refer to that guy's video who claims they are jumpy? That's GAE, not sure the GR are the same in that regard.
MPC O.G. 11:39 PM - 5 June, 2017
Quote:
I think the new Technics is an amazing piece of equipment. But for DJing I'm not sold, especially with the price tag. It's natured design towards HiFi takes away from the DJ aspects. Everything felt the same as the last release, but the feet didn't feel as sturdy. Great for audiophiles, but :( for djing.

You mean like they ALWAYS were?
DJ Dub Cowboy 11:44 PM - 5 June, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
Compared to the NEW Technics, the Denon isn't even a luxury car. It's more like a Scion.


Just curious Dub Cowboy, and I'm not trying to engage in a debate with you about Technics vs Denon, but have you spun on the VL12's yet? Like not just seeing it at some electronics show, but actually used one for DJ'ing for an short amount of time. Or is your opinion simply based on your assumptions that the VL12 is a OEM turntable or Gemini reincarnation and because it costs so much you don't believe that it's a worthy purchase?


My opinion is based on repairing DJ gear for the last 10 years. There is such a huge difference on the inside of a Technics versus any other DJ turntable I have taken apart. Which is why I would put the Technics is a luxury class, it is simply made with better parts and assembled by hand by a very select group of specialists (hopefully Technics is training the next generation.)

Despite what it seems, I'm not trying to knock the Denon from being one of the best turntables available for DJs today, I'd pick it over the Pioneer and Reloop all day long. It's just not in the same class as the Technics GR from what I can tell at this time. I haven't spent time with either. I do plan on picking up a set of GRs to be my main use decks and rental set for the next decade or two though. I am absolutely positive they will be up to the task.
Discobee 6:27 AM - 6 June, 2017
^^Thanks for clarifying this Dub Cowboy....would be interesting to see if down the road someone does a video of the VL12 showing the insides like I've seen with the Pioneer PLX1000.
Niro 7:27 AM - 6 June, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Everything felt the same as the last release, but the feet didn't feel as sturdy.

Feet are supposed to be improved.


Yes, but I believe for audiophiles to absorb more vibrations...etc. Not so good for DJ's especially ones that scratch or are really touchy feely.

You refer to that guy's video who claims they are jumpy? That's GAE, not sure the GR are the same in that regard.


They have a 1200 GEA at a local audiofile store south of Seattle. I was able to play with it, no scratching or anything. I have only read the GR use most of the same parts. But I have not seen or touched a GR in person.

I agree with Dub, the 1200 built quality is amazing. I also will probably get a set, but will probably keep them at home and the V12's or MK5's to a gig. I like wearing a Rolex, but usually wear my Gshock when i skate or surf.
Niro 7:34 AM - 6 June, 2017
Besides a 1200, the V12 is the currently the only turntable I've been hyped on.
Niro 6:54 PM - 16 June, 2017
Mojaxx's review on the 1200GR

www.facebook.com
Reticuli 7:08 PM - 16 June, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
Everything felt the same as the last release, but the feet didn't feel as sturdy.

Feet are supposed to be improved.


You mean those spring feet in the original 1200? I was amazed how much more isolating those simple dark gray silicone Numark feet were if you unscrewed them a little so they didn't touch the body and put a half tennis ball in each. Clearly designed with that usage in mind. I've also suspended the tennis ball half foot in a tuna fish can with rubber bands across, but that's crazy super isolation territory and touchy. I wonder how the new Technics and Denon isolation compare to the TT-200/500/TTX method with the tennis ball halves and not even messing with the tuna or rubber bands.
Decidan 8:49 PM - 18 August, 2017
So it's been a while since anyone has posted on this thread now. Has anyone else got their hands on a set of the VL12's yet?
Care to share any thoughts and opinions?
I've had myself a trio of these on order since April, and I'm still waiting in the UK!
I just hope they're worth the damn wait!
slimmjimm 8:59 PM - 18 August, 2017
I didn't really have too much time with it at the expo, but it did seem pretty solid.

I just think they're priced a tad too high.
Chino 9:01 PM - 18 August, 2017
Quote:
So it's been a while since anyone has posted on this thread now. Has anyone else got their hands on a set of the VL12's yet?
Care to share any thoughts and opinions?
I've had myself a trio of these on order since April, and I'm still waiting in the UK!
I just hope they're worth the damn wait!


I tried these at the DJ Expo in A.C. yesterday. Honestly, I was NOT impressed. IMHO, the build quality of Technics 1200s is MUCH better!! You might be better off buying a pair of used 1200s in good condition.

I've literally have had my pair of 1200MK2 for over 15 years and they are still going strong! I paid $400 used for the pair.
Decidan 11:08 PM - 18 August, 2017
Ye well that's the benchmark isn't it. It'll be an absolute miracle if a manufacturer produces a turntable quite as well as Technics did. Over engineering is a thing of the past.

Chino, what was it exactly that made you think the build quality isn't up to scratch on the Denon's?
Chino 2:31 AM - 19 August, 2017
Quote:

Chino, what was it exactly that made you think the build quality isn't up to scratch on the Denon's?


The exterior seems to be very similar to the Denon MCx8000 which I owned & have now sold. It's made of thin sheets of metal screwed on to a plastic base. I prefer the aluminum mold of 1200s.

The price of each is also a concern. Here in the States VL12s are going for $899 new each. I can easily buy a pair of used 1200s in good condition for that price.

Instead of buying a product that is trying to mimic (or "improve") the gold standard benchmark product…

Why not just buy the gold standard benchmark 1200? Technics 1200s are definitely worth the investment!
blackavenger 6:44 AM - 20 August, 2017
Quote:
Instead of buying a product that is trying to mimic (or "improve") the gold standard benchmark product…

Why not just buy the gold standard benchmark 1200? Technics 1200s are definitely worth the investment!

This...all day long!!

I had M5Gs and sold them in '13 for a HUGE profit. I missed turntables so I bought a pair of ATLP1240s which I didn't keep long. Then I bought a pair of PLX-1000s and wasn't feeling them, so those got sold as well. Just recently ( a month ago) I bought a pair of practically brand new MK5s from Japan. I freakin' LOVE them. Gonna' keep 'em until they die!
You just can't go wrong w' Techs.
Meekeen 11:23 AM - 20 August, 2017
The new 1200 are not meant to be used for DJing - just like the original was not meant to be, but this time though, Technics do insist on that.
Why?
Because, imho, they deliberately made it 'anti DJing':
-the platter is to heavy for scratching
-the spindle is too short and it's hard to brake when beatmatching (to those who do it that way).

So yep, they are made in awesome way and out of best materials by far but for home/hifi/audiophile use. Not DJing.

I think nyfl2008 is right: the best deck for DJing as of today is Reloop 8000 with Ortofon tonearm (expensive as hell) and improved feet.
It will cost you a lotta money but there is just nothing better.
kip 6:50 PM - 20 August, 2017
Quote:
-the platter is to heavy for scratching

How this affects scratching?


Quote:
-the spindle is too short

Not on the GR.

Quote:
the best deck for DJing as of today is Reloop 8000 with Ortofon tonearm (expensive as hell) and improved feet.

Any link showing Reloop with fitted Ortofon tonearm?
05spoof 7:39 PM - 30 August, 2017
Curious if the ntx1000 is a VL12 rebrand?
Gio Alex 8:22 PM - 30 August, 2017
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but this time though, Technics do insist on that.


They probably just said that because of the high price point. Didn't want DJs complaining so they just insist on it not being for djs and gear towards prosumer/audiophiles. It's a way of damage control. Why would you need a pitch fader/slider if it's not for djs? Why even bother designing it that way?
kip 7:16 AM - 31 August, 2017
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Why would you need a pitch fader/slider if it's not for djs?

Most hifi turntables had pitch control. There are other scenarios where you may need to tune the pitch, it's not just dj-ing. Examples: off speed record cut due to lathe speed deviation, matching the pitch of a musical instrument, fitting a track in a broadcast slot, fitting a track in a movie scene etc.
Technics successfully faded the "it's a dj table" idea that was bugging the audiophiles (wrongly) and didn't want to go back to it in a times when the main tt market is audiophile. It's like in the 70's now - it's audiophile tt but you can also dj on it.
Gio Alex 10:54 AM - 31 August, 2017
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Why would you need a pitch fader/slider if it's not for djs?

Most hifi turntables had pitch control. There are other scenarios where you may need to tune the pitch, it's not just dj-ing. Examples: off speed record cut due to lathe speed deviation, matching the pitch of a musical instrument, fitting a track in a broadcast slot, fitting a track in a movie scene etc.
Technics successfully faded the "it's a dj table" idea that was bugging the audiophiles (wrongly) and didn't want to go back to it in a times when the main tt market is audiophile. It's like in the 70's now - it's audiophile tt but you can also dj on it.


Yes, this is all true, and some of what you're referring to is fine tuning, however they were in the form of a knob and not a full slider/fader. Is this not true?

I think the first time I heard a wild pitch variation was in The Jackson's This Place Hotel AKA heartbreak hotel on a 7inch 45 record. Which makes sense because the song is over 5 mins with the outro.
kip 11:29 AM - 31 August, 2017
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however they were in the form of a knob and not a full slider/fader. Is this not true?

The slider makes the assigned value more visible, that's it. If you think the slider is a dj feature note that in 1979 when it was introduced, the djing was already rotary established, djs had to adopt to the new way of slider control which was completely new style of mixing to be learned, along with the quartz locked stability behavior of the platter. Because of this MK2 was not well received by the djs when first appeared and the MK1 was in high demand.
Gio Alex 2:01 PM - 31 August, 2017
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however they were in the form of a knob and not a full slider/fader. Is this not true?

The slider makes the assigned value more visible, that's it. If you think the slider is a dj feature note that in 1979 when it was introduced, the djing was already rotary established, djs had to adopt to the new way of slider control which was completely new style of mixing to be learned, along with the quartz locked stability behavior of the platter. Because of this MK2 was not well received by the djs when first appeared and the MK1 was in high demand.


Very interesting... By the way I do realize that there were already djs mixing with rotary/knob style pitch, just to clarify. What I'm really getting at is... the slider was not at all influenced or suggested by a dj? This has been proven to be a fact? I'm only asking because a lot of things back then are not so clear. There are things flash introduced that he was not credited for. All I'm saying is when it comes to Japanese engineering/design they are very good at taking notes and perfecting things. You don't suppose they saw djs and thought "maybe this would be easier if done this way."

Also, I see you're from Martinique - Sakap Fet!!!
AKIEM 2:28 PM - 31 August, 2017
But where is the evidence that the fader was implomented for DJs. People speculate and say it all the time, but where is the evidence?

And is the fader actually better for DJing than a rotary? Typically you arnt looking at the fader, you are listening (unless you are doing some specific pitch shifting)
Gio Alex 3:06 PM - 31 August, 2017
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But where is the evidence that the fader was implomented for DJs. People speculate and say it all the time, but where is the evidence?)


I'm just speculating, but it must've come from somewhere. lol

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And is the fader actually better for DJing than a rotary? Typically you arnt looking at the fader, you are listening (unless you are doing some specific pitch shifting)


Personally fader is better for me; riding the pitch. A knob wouldn't work that well for me, but admittedly it's just what I'm accustomed to- which could explain why djs might've been annoyed if the were used to a rotary. Change can be a pain sometimes.
kip 4:55 PM - 31 August, 2017
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You don't suppose they saw djs and thought "maybe this would be easier if done this way."

We'll never know unless we speak to the MK2 designer.
Imagine a radio station dj in 1979 who needs to quickly adjust the next song's pitch (back) to zero or whatever pitch he needs (not in terms of mixing, but broadcast playing)...With slider he is quick, with mk1 dial - not so, he has to look at the strobe etc.

The Thorens 125 used in the clubs before had a "kind of" slider pitch control, go to youtube video called "Thorens TD125 (s/n: 45657) Speed Test".

The rotary pitch workflow on the MK1 was explained by a dj from that era, posted here too, I think. Thing is that you ride (more like break) the platter with your middle finger while twisting the pitch knob with your thumb and index (same hand). That was possible coz of the knob position and the non quartz locked platter behavior. So MK2 brought two things that were major change affecting the workflow: 1. slider and its positioning 2. quartz locked platter that behaves differently (fights the mix, you'll understand if you try at least the MK2 mod that enables MK1 behavior).
AKIEM 4:56 PM - 31 August, 2017
I wonder if there was a fat knob instead of a fader all this time would anyone be asking for a fader?

It would be great to ever hear from someone who knows the answer to the question. How was the decision made.

With my 57mk1 I would use the knob to control pitch and it worked fine. Not really pitch riding, it would need to be bigger...

I learned to DJ on a mixer with a rotary fader.

Mystery might not ever be solved, like who's idea was it to use a cross fader.

My feeling is that Panasonic didn't then and doesn't now really like all this DJ shit. And everything about the 1200 was good coincidence.
kip 5:02 PM - 31 August, 2017
This rotary mixer fever is incomplete without a rotary pitch. Not joking. But that's another story.
AKIEM 5:03 PM - 31 August, 2017
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This rotary mixer fever is incomplete without a rotary pitch. Not joking. But that's another story.


exactly!

lol
Gio Alex 5:06 PM - 31 August, 2017
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This rotary mixer fever is incomplete without a rotary pitch. Not joking. But that's another story.


lol I hear ya on that. OG disco djs come to mind.
GusGomez 5:07 PM - 31 August, 2017
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Curious if the ntx1000 is a VL12 rebrand?

doubt it the VL12 built quality the tone arm the platter the whole thing feels very premium it feels really nice even better than my Stantons.
05spoof 5:24 PM - 31 August, 2017
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This rotary mixer fever is incomplete without a rotary pitch. Not joking. But that's another story.


lol I hear ya on that. OG disco djs come to mind.

The rotary had too be much easier at riding the pitch for disco.
Gio Alex 5:32 PM - 31 August, 2017
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This rotary mixer fever is incomplete without a rotary pitch. Not joking. But that's another story.


lol I hear ya on that. OG disco djs come to mind.

The rotary had too be much easier at riding the pitch for disco.


Freed up a hand to do that booger sugar
Mr. Goodkat 6:44 PM - 31 August, 2017
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This rotary mixer fever is incomplete without a rotary pitch. Not joking. But that's another story.


lol I hear ya on that. OG disco djs come to mind.

The rotary had too be much easier at riding the pitch for disco.


Freed up a hand to do that booger sugar


they just did it off someones tits, it was the 70s
Gio Alex 6:47 PM - 31 August, 2017
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This rotary mixer fever is incomplete without a rotary pitch. Not joking. But that's another story.


lol I hear ya on that. OG disco djs come to mind.

The rotary had too be much easier at riding the pitch for disco.


Freed up a hand to do that booger sugar


they just did it off someones tits, it was the 70s


I thought that was the 80s Lol
Mr. Goodkat 6:47 PM - 31 August, 2017
70s-80s all tit bumps ;)
Gio Alex 6:49 PM - 31 August, 2017
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70s-80s all tit bumps ;)


hahaha BIG FACTS
AKIEM 7:01 PM - 31 August, 2017
70s 80s 00s...
Gio Alex 7:07 PM - 31 August, 2017
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70s 80s 00s...


To your point, I allegedly witnessed some boob boober sugar snorting in Colombia. But then again, appparently it's still 70s/80s down there when it comes to that. Shrugs!
AKIEM 7:23 PM - 31 August, 2017
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70s 80s 00s...


To your point, I allegedly witnessed some boob boober sugar snorting in Colombia. But then again, appparently it's still 70s/80s down there when it comes to that. Shrugs!


No doubt it's the 70/80s for some more decades down there.
Mr. Goodkat 9:05 PM - 31 August, 2017
hypothetically speaking rachel starr may or may not have made me do that about 7-8 yrs ago
Will08272 9:10 PM - 31 August, 2017
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hypothetically speaking rachel starr may or may not have made me do that about 7-8 yrs ago


Allegedly
Mr. Goodkat 9:28 PM - 31 August, 2017
just what someone told me
Direktion 12:30 AM - 14 September, 2017
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Why not just buy the gold standard benchmark 1200? Technics 1200s are definitely worth the investment!


1. The original 1200's are no longer new, they are second hand.
2. The new 1200's are ridiculously expensive.